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Topic: Good 0 degree sleeping bag?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 12:54 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm looking for a good 0 degree sleeping down sleeping bag and was looking for some advice.

I'd like to spend less than $300 if possible, and these two are currently the front runners:
Marmot never summer 0 for $250
http://www.campmor.com/marmot-summer-degree-mummy-sleeping-bag.shtml

REI Radiant for $225
http://www.rei.com/product/808576/rei-radiant-0-sleeping-bag

Any thoughts on these, or other suggestions?  I'd be open to spending a little more if I need to.

Thanks!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 2:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

38 ounces of 650 fill and 22 ounces of 600 fill both rated at 0 degrees doesn't compute. The 38 ounces of 650 fill would be the obvious choice between the two though. Good is a relative term. Personally, I wouldn't buy a down bag unless it has 700 fill or better. That's my personal "cut off". I find bags with that rating or better to be more realistic in their loft, weight, accuracy in general. I'd be looking at last year's bags as you're running into the retail time for 0 degree bags considering we're almost in winter. Don't be afraid to buy used either.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 2:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'll go along with Tigger on that.  What temperatures do plan to use it in?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 7:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You could try golite's bags. My 40 degree bag from them work really well.

http://www.golite.com/sleeping-bags/4-season


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 8:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Tigger's right, something fishy there. If you look on the marmot website:

http://marmot.com/products/never_summer

The bag has 30 oz of fill. Which is much better, but to me, still kind of low. However, it is EN rated to 2.5 °F for men, 15° for women, so you can probably feel reasonably sure about that bag. I wonder if campmor mislabelled the fill value, or if they have an older version of the bag that wasn't EN-tested.  Oddly enough, backcountry lists the "membrane" version of the bag with EN ratings of 8 and 20° for men and women - that version is usually rated as being warmer than the regular.

I don't mind 600 fill for my bags - I have two 600 fill bags from REI that I like a great deal. But if the option is there, I'd definitely shoot for 750-850 fill.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 8:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, call me nuts, but I actually prefer slightly lower fill-count down for my cold-temp bag.  I think it's partially a psychological thing; I feel "warmer" with a heavier cover over me.  But I also think that my 600 fill-count bags maintain their loft better than my 800+ fill-count bags, especially in cold and damp conditions. The lower fill-count means it's packed denser (since each ounce of down occupies less volume) and that definitely makes it more "crush-proof".  (Of course, that means it's not as compressible as well.)

All that said, I think this is a great deal for a EN-rated cold-weather bag.  EN-rated to 6-deg. 32 oz of 600 fill down for a men's regular. The current $217 price is good but will qualify for another 20% off in a few days with an REI member coupon.
http://www.rei.com/product....loseout


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's the Same Ridge Runner in long for $201.47

http://www.outdoorplay.com/Sierra-....grabber


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for all the responses!  So there is one thing that I'm not totally clear on.  I've been sort of looking at EN ratings as a good way to compare two bags.  I've sort of been ignoring things like fill and fill weight, since I figured that the number it was tested at was more important.  But perhaps that's not a good way to look at it.

I guess I'll ask this:  What would you say is the best 0 degree bag under $300?  How about the best one under $400?

Oh, and as for what I'll use it for, it's going to be mostly normal winter camping.  I'd say probably 0 degrees would be the lowest, and even that isn't likely).  Probably normally lows from 5-20 in the winter.    I'm certainly not going to be doing any mountaineering or anything like that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There is no such thing as "normal winter camping". Winter is a wild beast that can fluctuate like the wind. Always be prepared for worst it can get...because at some point, it will and you'll be stuck out in it.

I would be getting something like this:

http://www.golite.com/Adrenal....19.aspx

Under $300, 800 fill, 0 rated and in my experience, accurately so. The only problem is...they go out of stock faster than peach goes out of style in summer.

There is no such thing as "The best"....but if there were, Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends would be at the top of the list.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think this might be where I'm a little confused on the EN-ratings vs. the specs.  I had looked at the go-lite bag, and though they don't list the actual EN rating, they do have them if you contact customer service.  I don't remember exactly what it was, but i do remember that it was rated several degrees higher than the REI Radiant (it was something like the Radiant was rated at 1 degree, and the Go-lite at 6 or 8).  

Perhaps I'm putting too much stock in the EN ratings?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CubsFan @ Oct. 03 2012, 7:32 am)
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I think this might be where I'm a little confused on the EN-ratings vs. the specs.  I had looked at the go-lite bag, and though they don't list the actual EN rating, they do have them if you contact customer service.  I don't remember exactly what it was, but i do remember that it was rated several degrees higher than the REI Radiant (it was something like the Radiant was rated at 1 degree, and the Go-lite at 6 or 8).  

Perhaps I'm putting too much stock in the EN ratings?

The EN-ratings are a great starting point. Put stock in them. However, realize that loft is what is going to keep you warm. If I don't see 4-5 inches of loft on a bag, it's not 0 degree rated. Get your hands on the sleeping bag and measure the loft if you're going to spend your hard earned money on a bag or go with a manufactuer (like Golite, WM or FF) who have an incredible reputation for being conservative in their temp rating. Be cautious in regards to manufacturers listing Comfort rating vs. survival, etc. in regards to EN rating. Look at the personal reviews and get a feel for what people like or don't like in regards to the features. If the hood is designed poorly, although you may have a ton of loft, you'll lose it around your head. If the DWR layer on your bag is too thick, moisture will get trapped inside and by night three, you'll have a completely different experience than your first night out unless you're using a vapor barrier. My primary winter sleeping bag has no zipper and no hood. I don't have any features or lack thereof to get in the way.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think most of us would prefer that a bag be EN-rated and, if it is, we would generally use that as a primary criteria.  But having a bag EN-rated is a service that bag manufacturers have to pay for and many of them, for various reasons, choose not to.  Some of the best bag makers fall into that group, including Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends.  If you're looking for a good bag, you wouldn't want to disregard these manufacturers just because they don't EN-rate their bags (IMO).

I think most of us who have researched bags tend to extrapolate EN-ratings to construction specs (i.e. measurements+fill-count+fill-weight) so that, given a bag with specs but no EN-rating, you can take a good guess at what the temperature rating would be.  You can also spot a bogus rating based on the specs as well.

"Best" is subjective.  People have their favorites.  Mine are Feathered Friends.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CubsFan @ Oct. 03 2012, 10:04 am)
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I guess I'll ask this:  What would you say is the best 0 degree bag under $300?  How about the best one under $400?

It's not a bag but a quilt.

If you can fit in small it's $399

http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/arc_products/arc_alpinist.htm

Would get you to 20F


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 12:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have a Marmot Couloir 0 bag. It is 800 fill down. It's a little pricey at $459 but well worth it if you want a true winter bag. I've used it comfortably in temps between +40F and -20F.

At the higher temps, I just unzip the bag to my waist level and wear shorts and a T while sleeping. At the lower temps, I wear expedition weight polypro, socks, and a cap with the bag zipped up tight.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I like the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0 degree bag for myself and my wife.

Check out ebay for some good quality bags.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Of those two I would take the REI. My ex has three of their bags and the down on all of them seem to be higher fill than stated.

No matter what the 8 oz of extra fill is going to mean a warmer bag.

Make sure you get a warm pad to stick under it. I would look for a minimum of r-5.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CubsFan @ Oct. 03 2012, 10:04 am)
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I guess I'll ask this:  What would you say is the best 0 degree bag under $300?  How about the best one under $400?

Oh, and as for what I'll use it for, it's going to be mostly normal winter camping.  I'd say probably 0 degrees would be the lowest, and even that isn't likely).  Probably normally lows from 5-20 in the winter.    I'm certainly not going to be doing any mountaineering or anything like that.

I have the Never Summer and used it to its rated (EN) low without issue.

However, I make a habit of hydrating properly, eating as well as I can, being active before bed time, and bringing adequate layers to get to temps 10 degrees below forecast, and SURVIVE down to 30 degrees below forecast.

I have had someone use the bag to around freezing (I loan gear often) and get cold.

These things are variable, but since I got mine for $140 on a clearance I consider the Never Summer a decent buy. It's a three pound bag but for winter that isn't bad. And you need to use it with a good pad (I have an Exped Down Mat, a three season pad with a second foam pad added to it will work).


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2012, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Can't go wrong with anything Feathered Friends.
http://www.featheredfriends.com/
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 8:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I managed a great (no, GREAT) deal on a GoLite Adrenaline 0° bag. But even without the great price break I got (did I mention it was a pretty great price?)  W's Adrenaline 4-Season Mummy - Long - 2011 in their clearance closet is $200. 800+ FP, 3 lbs. 6 oz., waterproof material at hood and foot. Now, I'm a guy, but it's meant for a woman up to 6'. I'm 5'8". And this thing is dense and lofty. Haven't had the chance to use it yet, though, but I've gotten inside for a sec. It didn't take long before I started melting, but I was in my room.

There's a catch. GoLite tried to reinvent the mouse trap, IMO. The zipper is at the chest if you're laying on your back, and it only unzips to about the waist. That said, it was pretty easy to enter and egress; sit on the hood, draw your knees up and slide them into the bag, then slide in all the way.

My only real concern is that the design of the bag is meant to 'fit.' With the hood and zipper combination, you really can't roll in the bag, you roll with the bag. Because it takes time for down to decompress, you may be left exposed for a bit if you're a restless sleeper. Also, bringing your pad in with you (should you roll like that) would be problematic.

With the zipper at the chest, and the added benefit of a very short zipper, (less exposure,) this really seems like a great bag for a hammocker, too.

Okay, okay... $176 shipped. I know, right?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Big Silk. I've been using a zipperless bag (Golite Featherlite) for years now. I love it and won't go back to a zippered bag unless I have to. Even though I'm a hammock sleeper in summer, I still don't mind the lack of zipper. I just slide in and I'm good to go. It definitely feels more efficient to me. I have to roll with my bag as it's on the snug side with my clothes on inside during winter and don't find the time it takes to loft to be much of concern.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 11:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Partial zip on the chest was once more common for cold-weather bags.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 12:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to go off topic, but I just got myself the Golite 3 season quilt...20 degree. I kind of like not having the zipper. Nothing pisses me off more then a pee break at 3 am..and the damn zipper gets snagged. I have been using the Golite 1 season quilt lately and kind of fell in love with quilts. I never thought I would use a quilt..but I think now my sleeping bag will be left behind in favor of quilts. I am a warm sleeper so I think I can get below the 20 degree mark with this quilt. I can put on my mid or heavy weight Smartwools, and also add my down sweater if really needed..I will deffinetely test my theories in my yard as the winter rolls in. Anyway... I would say go with a quilt over either of those sleeping bags if possible.

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(GottaGamble @ Oct. 08 2012, 12:13 pm)
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Anyway... I would say go with a quilt over either of those sleeping bags if possible.

Brrrr.  Zero degrees is well below my threshold for sleeping unzipped;  mid-20s maybe, but not 0.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Given the two bags you listed, I would lean towards the REI bag, more fill is always better. I tend not to focus too much on EN or manufacturers temperature ratings as fill weight and quality of fill material are most important to me. I have been backpacking and camping since starting as a boy scout in the early to mid 60s. As my gear buying days precedes recent efforts to standardize temperature ratings, I learned to judge gear based on the characteristics I could reasonably assess on my own.

In terms of the down ratings, I agree that higher rated down is typically better than lower rated down but believe that it is only part of the equation. Fill weight and bag design are important factors as well. (I remember when some of the best bags available were filled with 500-550 rated down!) As the down count goes up, typically other materials increase in quality (or decrease in weight). I wouldn't obsess too much about fill rating, 650 is more than adequate, just a little heavier than the higher fill ratings.

Other considerations that you should consider include the cut and sizing of the bag and the shell material. I typically prefer a wider bag as I find them more comfortable and can layer with clothing if needed. Narrow bags can be colder as the down can get compressed if it is too snug. For me, a minimum comfortable shoulder girth is 60-62 inches, larger is preferable. I know a wider bag takes longer to warm up but it is a trade off I am willing to make.

I am not a fan of waterproof breathable shell material as I prefer bags to breath. I use a bivy bag if I am worried about my bag getting wet. I prefer straight microfiber shells.

I currently have two Western Mountaineering bags (a Kodiak and a Badger) and am very happy with them. I also have a couple of 15 degree and 30 degree Sierra Designs bags with 650 down that I am also happy with.

Marmot and REI make great bags. Based on the specs of the two bags you listed, I would lean towards the REI bag. At that price, it is the better deal of the two. Depending on where you live and camp, it should be fine for moderate winter conditions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2012, 8:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner, but just wanted to close off this thread.  I ended up going to the REI Radiant 0 degree.  It wasn't the nicest, or the lightest, but it seemed the best value to me.  I also replaced my old pad with a new Big Agnes Qcore, so I expect that the combination of the two should serve me well.

Thanks again for all the help!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 31 2012, 8:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For what it is worth,

My 0deg bag for a few years has been a TNF Superlite, down. It is really my go-to sleeping bag for anything less than 50deg. When it is below freezing generally I have a fleece liner in it and it does fine. Temperature-wise it is a good bag. Weight-wise, it is on the heavy side.

If I were to do it over again I would go to Western Mountaineering. Yeah, you do pay a premium, but you also get a superior bag.

As someone else already mentioned regarding winter camping - always prepare for the worst it can get because sometime you'll be in it.

I have been down to around 0deg before and I was fine in my TNF Superlite - with both my liner and a full baselayer on. I had to throw a shirt over my face to keep my nose and cheeks from freezing, but other than that I was just fine. Now, I would not have wanted to go much colder in that set up. I am a cold sleeper though so my thought is to be on the safe side and add another 10deg to the ratings. You can always unzip the bag and cool off, but you won't ever be able to add warmth if you don't have it. That can make the difference between sleeping and "surviving". It's no fun shivering all night. Been there, done that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 01 2012, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Oct. 03 2012, 9:53 am)
QUOTE
Here's the Same Ridge Runner in long for $201.47

http://www.outdoorplay.com/Sierra-....grabber

Ridge Runner for $149.99 on SAC for the next 15 minutes, if you're still looking!

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 8:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I just bought a Colman North Rim 0 deg sleeping bag and it is plenty warm. I apid 75 for it and to me it is worth the money. Go it from bass pro shops like 2 wks ago and have used it every since.
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clrn0979  where do you live?
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