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treelinebackpacker 
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Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 10:20 pm |
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I'm currently making a decision on some new cold weather gear.
I am thinking, either packing a puffy down jacket, and a hard rain shell, or:
A waterproof snowboard style jacket.
In my area, it often starts out rain and turns to snow, so waterproofing is a necessity for winter hiking.
Any thoughts?
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| Post Number: 2
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Tigger
Woods Pouncer
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Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 10:27 pm |
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I'm a firm believer in the hard shell vs. a "do it all". I can't tell you how many times I have run into different conditions which warrant a different combo. This is mainly when hiking. Strong winds but temps above freezing equals hiking in hard shell with a base layer for wicking only (don't want extra insulation). Blizzard conditions around 0 equals, mid fleece plus base layer. Around camp, add down jacket underneath but no fleece. Night time sitting around outside, everything gets thrown on. In the morning when we first take off, I'll often have base layer, another base layer, and a mid layer under my jacket and then shed them as I warm up. Downhill doesn't exactly warm me up very fast so sometimes can take a mile before I'm down to my base layer but I don't want to take off my shell unless I know I'm going to be dry that day. Pitzips open and just my glove shells with a wicking base underneath means hiking in comfort and yet no freezing when we stop for a break. I just simply zip up the pitzips and I'm good to go.
What happens if you dampen your all-in-one jacket? You're screwed. It will ice up and be useless so you'll have to be extra cautious with temperature management. If I dampen something, I can always throw on a different mid-layer underneath my hard shell and be back in business.
Also, I like that conditions can shift from rain to snow and I can adapt easily.
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If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
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| Post Number: 3
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Serpicorabbit
If I pee on it, it's mine!
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 4:07 am |
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Sweating into a down jacket sucks. It renders it heavy and useless. At least fleece is hydrophobic. As Tigger says, a hard shell over a wicking base layer is pretty effective when you're active in low-ish temps. Excessive sweating from the inside is just as bad as soaking from the outside.
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No problem! ~ ALF
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Serpicorabbit's blog
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| Post Number: 4
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Montanalonewolf
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 7:17 am |
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Layers.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 5
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rayestrella
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 8:34 am |
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Ski and snowboard jackets are just that. They don't work well for true winter backpacking. For that you want a good shell, with fleece to put under it if needed. Fleece will transfer sweat which you will be making no matter how cold it is.
Down is for in camp. Put your down on over a damp base layer or fleece and your body heat will dry it. (Fleece glove or glove liners go in the inside chest pocket of the down to dry them too.)
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I measure happiness with an altimeter
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| Post Number: 6
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peeb
Let's see who's been naughty, and who's been naughty!
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:22 am |
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Yes, layers for everything, including gloves, liners, and hats.
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It's all so simple when you break it down scientifically - Nick Bakay
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| Post Number: 7
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| Post Number: 8
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TigerFan
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:13 am |
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Based on your description, I'm assuming that you're mostly concerned about temperatures in the 30-40 degree range (during the day)?
If it's warm enough to be rain, once I start moving, I'm pretty quickly down to a mid-weight baselayer and a shell. I would roast in a ski jacket. I've been wearing 200-230 weight merino baselayers in winter. The puffy/insulation layer goes on in camp.
On cold but dry days, I prefer the baselayer plus a fleece like an R1. But that plus a shell isn't warm enough for me in camp when it's around freezing.
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Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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| Post Number: 9
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treelinebackpacker
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:56 am |
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Thanks for the feedback.
I've always used a layering system, usually a thermal, synthetic t-shirt, outer layer (usually fleece or a long synthetic t-shirt) and an outer layer (usually a rain shell)
I was looking into other options, but it seems like I'm doing the best thing I can.
I've never used a down, so I was pretty curious as to what people experienced with those.
Yeah, usually winter hiking is 30-45 during the day. It easily hits 15-30 at night though, hence the curiousness about the down.
Thanks much. 
I think the only change I'm going to make is picking up a down jacket for camp. That's usually where I break out the snowboard jacket, but down is so much lighter.
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| Post Number: 10
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| Post Number: 11
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| Post Number: 12
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treelinebackpacker
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 3:39 pm |
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How do you guys feel about this as an outer layer?
Columbia, Freefall II jacket
I found one local for just 70 bucks.
I also snagged a nice fleece puffy for 36 bucks. No joke.
Feathered friends makes some ace stuff, but I'm on a tight budget right now, at least until the first of the year.
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| Post Number: 13
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wildlifenate
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 3:53 pm |
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(treelinebackpacker @ Oct. 05 2012, 2:39 pm)
QUOTE How do you guys feel about this as an outer layer? Columbia, Freefall II jacketI found one local for just 70 bucks. I also snagged a nice fleece puffy for 36 bucks. No joke. Feathered friends makes some ace stuff, but I'm on a tight budget right now, at least until the first of the year.
ugh, that's a heavy shell jacket.
When people here are talking about layering hardshells, they're talking about uninsulated ones.
Like this (at the same retailer)
http://www.nevisport.com/pr/7081/epic-jacket-mens-
Its' only purpose it to block rain or wind. Insulating duties are taken by your other layers.
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The GPS Geek
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| Post Number: 14
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High_Sierra_Fan
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 3:58 pm |
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Well $79 bucks for a FF vest is pretty good.
In general a ski jacket isn't going to be the best design for backcountry use. Different design goals which is why it's got built-in insulation: i.e. NOT flexible to differing conditions. Columbia probably makes back country usage items as well.
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| Post Number: 15
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| Post Number: 16
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TigerFan
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 5:10 pm |
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(treelinebackpacker @ Oct. 05 2012, 3:39 pm)
QUOTE How do you guys feel about this as an outer layer? Columbia, Freefall II jacketI found one local for just 70 bucks. I also snagged a nice fleece puffy for 36 bucks. No joke. Feathered friends makes some ace stuff, but I'm on a tight budget right now, at least until the first of the year.
Umm, I think a "fleece puffy" is an oxymoron. 
OK, on a budget, consider:
DriDucks for rain:
http://www.froggtoggs.com/#outerwear/driducks/DS1204/
For the insulation, you're going to have to get lucky for down under $100. Lands End sales are good. Also, if you have a Costco near you, they currently have UL down jackets for under $100. They're styled like the Patagonia down sweater. Find someone who's a member to take you.
Otherwise, backcountry.com can be a good source. Check for Stoic down (it's their own brand). They recently had some down anoraks that were a good deal. Promo code 'TAKE20' for 20% off non-sale items.
GoLite also has very reasonably priced high-quality outerwear, imo. A few shells under $100 and down layers just above.
If down proves to be too expensive, consider a jacket with Primoloft One or Climashield insulation. They perform really well in the mildly cold temps that you're talking about.
Oh, and you should seriously consider browsing the Gear Swap forum on backpackinglight.com for something used. A lot of people will be "reviewing" their winter gear right about now and replacing items. You can get a much higher qualify used jacket.
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Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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| Post Number: 17
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| Post Number: 18
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onepaddlejunkie
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 5:53 pm |
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For kinda cold:
REI Sahara Long-Sleeve T-Shirt
Mountain Hardwear Monkey Man Lite fleece hoodie
Montbell Thermawrap Pro jacket
Westcomb Cruiser LT eVent jacket
Will have packed a mid-weight or expedition weight base layer depending on how cold I think it will get.
Mountain Hardwear Chillwave Down Parka if it is really going to get cold. Never tried to fit it under the Westcomb jacket. I suspect it won’t fit very well without compressing the heck out of the down rendering it much less effective.
None of the above is remotely budget minded. But it is warm.
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| Post Number: 19
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ashepabst
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 6:01 pm |
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here's LLBean's 650 fill for $99:
http://www.llbean.com/llb....ubrnd=0
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| Post Number: 20
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TigerFan
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Joined: May 2010
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 7:04 pm |
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Someone on BPL posted about this $60 down jacket at PC Penny. I haven't seen it but it's interesting enough to investigate:
http://www.jcpenney.com/dotcom....al=null
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Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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| Post Number: 21
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treelinebackpacker
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 7:11 pm |
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"fleece puffy"
Oh, ha ha. I meant down puffy. I had fleece on the mind, as REI has one I was looking at.
The Columbia felt pretty thin when I saw it in a local store, but I didn't really pay too much attention. I also snowboard, so it was a tempting offer. I'll probably still grab it for that purpose.
I have an quality Outer shell now, Columbia, pretty breathable and all, but I'm not impressed by it's ability to stop wind is the thing. I'm a slim guy, and wind cuts right through me.
The Mountain Hardware jacket might fit the bill nicely. About what I was looking for.
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| Post Number: 22
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Tigger
Woods Pouncer
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Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 7:23 pm |
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The link I sent you was a for a down jacket rated at 0 for $49.99 (marked down from $99.99) and there's a code "Leaves" with pin "9876" for 40% off your highest price item that looks like it also works in combo. If you throw in something else to make your purchase $50 or more, you'll also get free shipping. The average rating on that jacket is extraordinary 4.5 with 51 reviews. Impressive for a "cheap" jacket. The only "Meh" is that it is only 600 fill.
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If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
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| Post Number: 23
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treelinebackpacker
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Joined: Aug. 2011
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 8:42 pm |
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I was taking a look at that one, it almost seems too warm for the area. 0-25 degrees? I suppose if you were just hanging around camp (likely scenario) that would probably work out pretty well.
That's a pretty slick deal.
Also notable is the water resistant finish.
Top of my list for down right now.
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| Post Number: 24
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Tigger
Woods Pouncer
Group: Members
Posts: 10628
Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:49 pm |
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I would not be concerned about it being "too warm". Down regulates temperature like the insulation in your house. Your house doesn't get too warm in winter. You just hold in the heat better.
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If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
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| Post Number: 25
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rorak
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Joined: Jul. 2012
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Posted on: Oct. 07 2012, 8:18 pm |
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I dont know if anyone is interested, but I went to JCP last night to look at that Down Puffer Jacket. They come in five colors, have 650 fill, and come with a stuff sack made from the same nylon as the jacket. There pretty light, would work good as a liner or on there own when its dry.
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Paul TC,MI.
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| Post Number: 26
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| Post Number: 27
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JRinGeorgia
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Posted on: Oct. 07 2012, 9:07 pm |
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^Thanks for that, I saw TigerFan's link to it and went to the page but does not give the fill power (usually a red flag). 650 fill is decent.
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- JRinGeorgia
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| Post Number: 28
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mamamiapdx
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 1:04 am |
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Also look at First Ascent Serrano Primaloft synthetic jacket.
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| Post Number: 29
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minimalistix
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Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 2:14 pm |
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Layers like everyone else has suggested.
I generally always carry a hardshell with me when hiking.
Depending on the temps/weather, I usually layer with a down sweater or patagonia nano puff and then have a capilene or marino wool shirt under that.
If it gets really cold, that when I breakout the midweight down parka that has an eVent shell.
So if I were you I'd save up and buy a top of the line (non insulated) hardshell that will last. Or as other people have said, look for something secondhand. (I have several jackets that were second hand that you couldn't tell they have even been used. In full disclosure, I'm a bit of a jacket slut/collector. Have more hardshells than I need)
Just a note on the second hand jackets, there is a ton of knock off gear out there, so buyer beware.
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| Post Number: 30
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