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Topic: Gear Test: BA Copper Spur UL3, Def. put it through the rain test< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 9:22 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Friday night we made it up to Rickett's Glenn S.P. in PA for a quick over night with my wife.  With no kids, no dogs and a plan of kayaking and hiking the next day and the weather supposed to be improving, we were stoked for a relaxing night camping and looking forward to the next day.

Around 9pm, I started to hear the thunder.  Ten I saw the lightning.  Before we could discern that it was actually going to rain, it started to pour, monsoon like.  I was pretty unprepared, since I left the ground cloth kind of out on the edges.  Needless to say we stayed dry, until the morning when the water was pooled up under the edges started to come in and the rainfly started to drip.

When we got out I noticed how absolutely soaked through the rainfly was.  Soaked through.  I never would have thought that would have happened with such a tent (price wise/name brand) and all the reviews I read stated said over and over again that people waited out major rain storms in it.  Although we were dry for the night, I can't imagine we would have been given anymore rain.  Not to mention it took all day, at home, in the sun, to dry it out.

Has anyone had such experience with this tent?  Needless to say I have since applied water repellent to the tent to keep this from happening again.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 10:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I apply DWR to ALL my shelters till water beads up and slides off. Putting a dry tent weighs less and is a much more pleasant experience. This goes double in winter. Ice stuck to the tent sucks.

None of my tents has been immune so I wouldn't feel to shocked or disappointed in it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 10:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Where was it dripping from the rainfly? †Most often I've seen dripping at guyline attachments points, even on tents that perform quite well in heavy rain. †Those points I reinforce with a little seam grip.

Heavy rain can be challenging under the best of circumstances. †In some of the places we've had to camp (designated and compacted sites with poor drainage!) it has helped to bring along a groundsheet for the inside of the shelter as the rain won't penetrate it from the bottom. †I recycle an old window insulation covering at the end of winter and stuff it in the bottom of my pack. †It weighs practically nothing and is great peace of mind. †On an unprepared occasion I've had to cut up our compactor bags - whch is why I now carry the polycryo sheet LOL!

How are you liking the tent otherwise? †It's on our radar for someday perhaps, it turns out my DH prefers a double wall shelter to the tarptent.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I guess I should have known better to just expect it to me waterproof right out of the bag.  Not one of the reviews I ever read stated anything about treating the tent prior to using it.

Tigger, I can't imagine that water turning to ice, that would be a nightmare in any condition.

Peeb, the drips were coming from the contact of the saturated rainfly to the netting part of the tent over head.  Not the seems.  The rainfly was like a wet t-shirt on the tent, completely see through it was so wet.

I love the tent otherwise.  It's huge inside.  I'm 6'3" and I have plenty of room at the head and foot of the tent when sleeping.  Something I have yet to experience in other tents.  I got it at a really good price, which is the only reason why I purchased it.  I can sit up in it without much problems, it's wide enough for three, but I don't know if I'd ever want to have three in it.  The doors are nice, but they're part of the floor, so you have to sit on them or have them on the ground when you get in or out.

I will be testing it again in December for an over night trip, I'll be sealing the crap out of it before then I can guarantee.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That tent has very low hydrostatic head for both the fly and the floor (1200mm).  I am a little surprised by the fly issue if only that the angle at which the walls sit should have had rain bouncing off, rather than settling.  There may have been some condensation on the inner part of the fly as well, which exacerbates the wetness of the fly.

The floor is not a surprise.  1200mm is generally not enough to prevent moisture from seeping through should water get underneath the floor and the tent inhabitant (that would be you) puts pressure on the floor from their body.  This has happened to me, especially when kneeling.

Additional spray on waterproofing will help although it will be temporary (wears off silicone) and will add weight.  A footprint can help with the floor but again, adds weight.  Sounds like you had one but maybe didn't have it placed properly.  Is that a factory footprint?

FWIW - the only tent I have never had some moisture issue with is a Hilleberg 4 season shelter.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikingFF77 @ Oct. 22 2012, 10:55 am)
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Peeb, the drips were coming from the contact of the saturated rainfly to the netting part of the tent over head. †Not the seems. †The rainfly was like a wet t-shirt on the tent, completely see through it was so wet.

So was the rainfly in direct contact with the mesh inner?  This is a tent with clips, correct?  Guying the rainfly out away from the tent's inner would help a lot with that, for sure.  (We have a double wall with clips as well, but take care to guy the fly away from the inner, even in good weather - it helps with condensation from the 3 of us, certainly.)  Although spraying the fly down prior to your next trip isn't a bad idea.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Family guy.  No, the foot print was not factory, I didn't have it placed properly and to be honest, no water came in from the bottom, I don't know if I wrote that it did, but if so I was mispoken.  I will def. be fixing the ground cloth to be under the tent, rather than hanging over the next time we camp.

Peeb.  The rainfly was so wet it had no choice but to hang on the mesh.  I didn't have it fully guyed out, but it was taunt on the tent frame before the rain.  The tent body goes on with clips, the rainfly hangs over the shell and clops into the corners of the floor.  The thing with guying it out fully is that it didn't seem like it would make the fly any more taunt.  But I could be wrong.

I know the spraying is only temporary as waterproofing is just a coating on this type of fabric, but I thought the factory would have put more on.

I don't mind the slight extra weight considering the tent weighs less than 4 pounds.

My brother has a REI 1/2 dome (or quarter dome) and the rainfly is made of much heavier fabric and hasn't ever had a waterproof issue.  Mind you that tent does collect quite a bit of condensation with the rainfly fully closed up and weighs almost two pounds more.


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ďIím just hanging on while this world keeps spinning and itís good to know itís out of my control.  If thereís one thing Iíve learned from all this living is that it wouldnít change a thing if I let goÖĒ
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am thinking that part of it was condensation then....on the fly.  Was there any wind?  Did the temperature drop significantly outside.

If it truly was leaking then I am also wondering if this is a quality issue and the fly should be replaced by BA....?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No wind.  Temperatures were fall like all day, never got past 40 at night and was around mid-50's during the day.

I thought so to, I have emailed them and waiting on a response.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You're sure it wasn't condensation?
It was staked out well, and vents were open?
I've never had a problem with any BA tent.
Is this the first use?
Could be a factory defect, especially if the entire fly was soaking up water.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have never had that much rain with the CS 2 or 3 but I set the Fly Creek 2 up in a storm on purpose outside my living room and let it sit in the rain all day and night and it was fine. That uses the same material for the fly. It does not seem it should have wet-out to me unless it is old or has been used a lot.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, first use.
I didn't guy it out completely for battle, just the four corners, the ends and the doors.

Vents were open.

I should have taken pictures of the fly.  It was acting like cotton, just soaked completely to the bone.

I've called the company and am waiting for a response.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 1:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just got off the phone with BA.  They stated that it isn't normal unless the tent is subjected to a long exposure to heavy rain.

I explained the situation, and he told me that they would like to see it and for me to send it back.

So we'll see how it goes.  I have a return number and hope I get it back in time for my next trip in December.  I can't imagine it'll take that long, but who knows.  They said they will test it and either return or replace, depending on their results.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 8:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Oct. 22 2012, 10:30 am)
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None of my tents has been immune so I wouldn't feel to shocked or disappointed in it.

Interesting thread.

Tigger, are you saying you've never had a fully waterproof tent? I would be shocked and disappointed in the OP's case.

I've only ever had a couple of problems with water. The worst was due to human error (pitching in a depression). Some brands I've had in long, hard downpours and stayed dry (sometimes for several days): Eureka (several tents), REI (2), Mountain Hardwear. I've never added any additional waterproofing to any tent, and still they've held up well in the rain.

Personally, I would not buy a tent with a 1200mm coating on the fly or floor. I would rather carry the extra weight of a better coating and tough fabric and know I'm going to be dry. An experience like the OP had, if it happened in cold weather, would not be fun at all, especially with a down bag.

Peeb, when the tent floods, as happened to me once, I don't think a groundsheet inside the tent is going to help.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 10:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Trailtamper,

It wasn't the floor that was the problem.  It's the rainfly.  You could see the water under the floor on the groundsheet, but it wasn't coming through.  The rainfly absorbed a ton of water.  Which led to it sagging and dripping.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2012, 11:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TrailTramper @ Oct. 22 2012, 5:47 pm)
QUOTE

(Tigger @ Oct. 22 2012, 10:30 am)
QUOTE
None of my tents has been immune so I wouldn't feel to shocked or disappointed in it.

Interesting thread.

Tigger, are you saying you've never had a fully waterproof tent? I would be shocked and disappointed in the OP's case.

I've only ever had a couple of problems with water. The worst was due to human error (pitching in a depression). Some brands I've had in long, hard downpours and stayed dry (sometimes for several days): Eureka (several tents), REI (2), Mountain Hardwear. I've never added any additional waterproofing to any tent, and still they've held up well in the rain.

Personally, I would not buy a tent with a 1200mm coating on the fly or floor. I would rather carry the extra weight of a better coating and tough fabric and know I'm going to be dry. An experience like the OP had, if it happened in cold weather, would not be fun at all, especially with a down bag.

Peeb, when the tent floods, as happened to me once, I don't think a groundsheet inside the tent is going to help.

I'm saying that I've yet to have a tent that had a fly that beaded water off the way I expect from a new rainfly - think Rain-X. I've had to seamgrip on the guyouts on every single tent (seamtaped but never sealed on the guyouts which means the stress of a major storm is all it takes to stress it to the point of dripping in a tent). I also can't afford to have any spots where moisture is holding after hours of rain even if it doesn't leak in the tent. I want/require my rainfly to bead water off completely so that all I have to do is shake it and pack it away dry.

I have always DWRed my rainflys at a minimum once before Fall and usually again in winter to keep them in nice dry shape. I also check along the seamtape for lifting and touch up with a syringe as needed to keep them in great shape. I also reinforce all guyouts and corner stress points with Seamgrip as needed, inside and out.

That's another reason I am completely stoked and waiting for Neverwet...

http://www.neverwet.com/


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2012, 8:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It certainly sounds like there may have been a bad batch of nylon to me, and I bet Big Agnes will take care of it. They are one of the best at CS in my experience.

I just finished testing the Jack Rabbit 2 which uses different material (SL vs UL) and had it set up on an island in Gunflint Lake for three days. It rained off and on the entire time I was there and I had no problems. And no, I don't add any treatments to the tents I test.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2012, 9:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Every tent I have ever owned has beaded up and rolled off the first time, even the walmart one.  Maybe not after the third or fourth time, but certainly the first few times.  My Coleman Cabin tent was good until about the third trip and even then it took three days of heavy downpours for the fly to start to fail.  I treated it and it hasen't been a problem.

I don't mind treating the fabric, but for the price of the tent it better shed water the first few times I use the thing.  I can understand your constant attention to detail Tigger since you go out in some much worse weather than I, but it shouldn't be needed the first time out of the box.

Ray, I agree.  Most of the tents I've had I've been able to just pick up the fly, shake off the beaded water and be done and on my way.  My other REI tent fly, different material, was like a seals back, water never did anything but bead and I've never had to treat that, just pick it up, shake it once and in the backpack.

They, BA, seem to be on the ball here.  They're helping me find a mends here so far, so I am happy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2012, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Glad to hear that BA is looking into the issue! †Heavy rain is annoying to deal with. †It seems like that's all we ever encounter, too - never just a drizzle for us LOL!

As for guying out, each time we didn't guy out a fly completely, even in calm waether, we always wished we had ;-)


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2012, 10:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am surprised you had this issue.  I have had my copper spur 3 for over 4 years. During the first year, We were iin west Florida for a weekend cub scout trip. It was raining Friday when we pitched the tent and did not stop until we left Sunday. Saturday night we had a tornado warning. Intense lightning, extreme downpours for hours. A tornado touched down within 4 miles of our campsite.

My wife who was planning to sleep in another tent as I had my two sons in the CS, slept in the truck, she was really afraid of the lightning. Many if not most of the other tents leaked. During the most severe rain, i found a small very slow drip where the cross pole enters the fly and there is a triangular area seam taped by the door, but otherwise the tent never leaked. I later seam sealed this and have had no problems since.  The storm was so bad I fired up my phone and watched the radar with plans to run to the truck if needed. One son was awake and the other slept through the whole thing, never realizing what was going on. When it rains you need to be sure the fly is guyed out  tight and I always use at least the center guy out at each end of the tent. I have never had the fly hit the inner mesh, even when wet or windyI also always use the footprint.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

FS, which is exactly the same stories I have been hearing all over the place with reviews.  SO I guess I got a dud or something.

I'll be returning the fly as requested by BA for evaluation and we'll see what they find out.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 7:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BA has been great on service also  :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So what happened?
We have that same tent bought about a year ago...


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 8:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Have it sent in, waiting for comments.  I dragged my feet a little getting it in, just swamped, but I'm sure it'll turn out to be a good experience either way.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 2:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Okay, just an update, I sent the tent in on Friday, they received it Monday and tested it Tuesday.  I received an email from them this afternoon, Tuesday, and it stated that they tested it and found it to be working properly but since they don't want me to worry about it they are sending me a new fly.

So I'm more than happy with the CS I received and plan on photographing the tent more often in any kind of weather, maybe even a simulated shower, to see if I get the same affect.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 3:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikingFF77 @ Oct. 22 2012, 9:22 am)
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†Needless to say I have since applied water repellent to the tent to keep this from happening again.

perhaps you applying the water repellant to the tent had something to do with them testing it and finding it to be ok???

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 4:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's possible.  I thought about that to.  I originally told them that I applied the spray and they said it shouldn't have mattered.  Now, who knows if I actually get a new one back or if they just send me back the same one...  I plan on testing it out and then seeing how the material handles.

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ďIím just hanging on while this world keeps spinning and itís good to know itís out of my control.  If thereís one thing Iíve learned from all this living is that it wouldnít change a thing if I let goÖĒ
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GottaGamble Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ok, good luck. I'm sure they will send you a new one..I would hope they wouldnt pull the old switcherooooo.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 3:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Rod, where do you reside?  Is it at all ever humid?

So I took some pictures from this past weekend and sent them to BA to show them the moisture and see what I may be doing wrong.  They asked me if I lived in a very humid environment, which our area is no where near a level to be perceived as high humidity.  However where we were, and both trips I was on with the tent, it was very humid with tons of dew in the morning.  So they're assuming that is the major cause.  Plus, I never really pitched the tent very taunt, fearing I might rip something.  When I mentioned this to the guy at BA, he agreed, stating that it needs to be pitched tight and if I ever damage it from that, they'll fix it under warranty.

So I'm going to go from there, see how it works out.


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ďIím just hanging on while this world keeps spinning and itís good to know itís out of my control.  If thereís one thing Iíve learned from all this living is that it wouldnít change a thing if I let goÖĒ
Jimmy Buffett & Martina McGraw
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

"You could see the water under the floor on the groundsheet, but it wasn't coming through. "

If the underside of the floor is wet but not from rain water flowing under, it is from ground evaporation.
In that case the vestibule will collect ground evaporation too and that will settle on the underside of the fly making it appear that the fly is dripping.
Here is a photo illustrating that :


It happens with all tents except that many don't notice because they have a fabric inner so they don't see that.
If this is the case you can reduce that by covering the vestibule area with a groundsheet.
(make sure that if it rains the sheet does not collect rainwater...)
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