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Topic: Backpacking quilts, How and why< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 8:27 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I had mentioned last month that I should write an article about quilt use similar to the one I did for BPL, but put it somewhere free to read and a few of you encouraged me to do so.

Here it is. I think it will stay there but it may be moved as BGT has never done a general knowledge article before.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews....strella


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 7:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Looking at giving a high loft down quilt a try at about 15F to save some weight.  My 30F + Western Mountaineering is often used quilt style but there's not that much of a weight difference that I'm ready to give it up.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 8:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd go for it if I got more use at a lower average temperature. The 40F bag that I use as a quilt into the mid 40s, and am comfortable zipped up in down to around 30 is enough for most of my use, and a similarly rated quilt would only save half a pound.
My warmer bag, though, weighs 40oz, and because it is actually overkill for anything I'm ever likely to get into(EN 10F, probably a sub-zero bag for me, and I live in Alabama), could be replaced with a 20F quilt at barely over half the weight, saving almost 20oz. I love the bag, but wish I'd bought a quilt, instead. For the rare occasions I need that much bag, it's not much of an issue, but every time I look at the Enlightened Equipment Revelation specs, I'm reminded that I could have probably had the same functionality, minus 20oz, at the same cost.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 8:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nice article, Ray, thanks. Quilts and hammocks have long been a mystery to me.

I still have one question after reading your article. Why wouldn't a sleeping bag used quilt style be superior to a quilt without a zipper? A sleeping bag has a foot pocket. In warm weather you stick your feet outside. In cool weather you use the foot pocket. As the temperature goes down, you progressively zip the bag up. On very cold nights you tighten the shoulders and hood as well. You never have to worry about the bag wandering away, due to the zipper.

A 2-lb 35F bag thus adapts to temperatures from about 25 to 70, which is a pretty wide range.

I guess you're going to say that the main advantage of a quilt is the weight savings? Beyond the weight of a quilt, I'm only carrying extra ounces in the zipper and the hood, right? That seems like a tiny weight penality compared to the additional warmth and ease of use at the lower end of the temperature rating.

So what am I missing about the advantages of a quilt?

[Note: The bag I'm referring to is specifically a semi-rectangular, which may be better than a mummy for using quilt style. (?)]
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 10:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quilts are typically narrower than a sleeping bag; they're sized to cover you plus tuck around the sides comfortably.  Quilt widths are about 48-56" while sleeping bag girths are more like 58-64".

Also, no hood, or extras like draft tubes or collars.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 10 2012, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As usual, great write up Ray! I enjoyed reading it and can relate pretty dang close to your sleeping style. And I did not realize that you had 2 TSS quilts... I still wish that I would have gotten mine...I feel like I would have enjoyed it a lot.

To date, I have had 5 quilts, but only have 3 at the moment. I had a GoLite RS1+ Season quilt that was awesome, until I turned into a bit of a gram weenie...and it was the long version, which I did not come even close to needing. I have a Hammock Gear 50 F quilt, an Enlightened Equipment quilt with 2.5 oz/sqyd Climashield which I absolutely love, and a 35 F Enlightened Equipment Proidigy quilt which I am coming to love. This is actually the second 35 F Prodigy quilt I have had, the first one I sold off since I ordered it too short...

Anyway, I have really grown to love quilts, especially being a side-sleeping tosser-n-turner... However, I have only had them down to mid 30's. Next year though I would like to get a lower rated quilt and push the temp limit a little more. For now though, I will stick with my Marmot Helium for the colder weather. (And I don't get those -5 F temp weather that you get... :) )

Anyway, thanks for sharing man. I will have to refer this write up to others...


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 6:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TrailTramper @ Nov. 10 2012, 7:13 pm)
QUOTE
I still have one question after reading your article. Why wouldn't a sleeping bag used quilt style be superior to a quilt without a zipper?

So what am I missing about the advantages of a quilt?

You’re not “missing” anything. The article is meant to explain backpacking quilts in the first place, and why they work best for me and my sleeping style in the second place. It is not to tell you that it is better than what you have or like.

You probably weren't around back when I was going through sleeping bags the way you go through tents. (Well I kept them long enough to write about;-) Lightweight, high end bags as I kept refining and redefining my hiking style. Read some of my old bag reviews and you will see I used many sleeping bags in a quilt fashion.

A quilt can never be as efficient as a sleeping bag. A mummy bag is the warmest design there is. I find three things of benefit from quilts. Comfort, weight savings, and volume reduction. Those are enough for me obviously. You get to do whatever works for you.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 6:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(STICK @ Nov. 10 2012, 10:08 pm)
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As usual, great write up Ray! I enjoyed reading it and can relate pretty dang close to your sleeping style. And I did not realize that you had 2 TSS quilts... I still wish that I would have gotten mine...I feel like I would have enjoyed it a lot.

Anyway, thanks for sharing man. I will have to refer this write up to others...

Thank you Chad,

I gave the first TSS quilt (32 F) to Dave so now he is hooked on quilts too, and just have the summer quilt Javan made me that was his last quilt. I can't review it since he is out of the quilt business.

Please do share. That is why I gave it to BGT. I didn't want it to be stuck for subscribers only.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Should have read this post prior to asking questions about quilts. Thanks for the help and information.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nice write up, thanks for sharing.  I just ordered my first quilt the other day, should be in my hands on Tuesday.  I went with a RevX from Enlightened Equipment.  20*, 6', wide, half taper, 30% overfill.  Should weigh in around 25.5oz.  I too am a side sleeper and constantly toss and turn.  I'm hoping a quilt will make my sleeping time much more enjoyable.  And while I can't comment on the product yet, I can say that Tim was great to deal with, answered all my questions in a speedy manner and the quilt was shipped the day after I ordered it.  His great customer service goes a long way with me.  I think the addition of a down balaclava is a good idea, I'll have to add that to my list of gear wants.  The quilt will get it's first field test Thanksgiving weekend.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 8:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ray. you describe exactly how I sleep.  I've used a semi rectangular bag for years with it unzipped except for the footbox.  Guess I've been quiltin it and didn't even know it.   Now you've made the case that's gonna make me go gear shopping again :)   Great article. Thanks

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 8:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have looked at the Enlightened Equipment site and it looks very good. Would like to hear how it arrives and your testing. I think that is what I want to go with too. Please keep us informed.

Thanks Ray for getting me to buy more gear. Pretty soon an addition will be required.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(IAJeff @ Nov. 12 2012, 8:24 pm)
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Thanks Ray for getting me to buy more gear.

"Oh-oh yes, he's the great enabler..............."




paraphrased, of course   :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What must they be paying ray to redirect traffic?

Just kiddin you, man.  You do a great service to us.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Good article Ray.  I was looking at the 1 season/40 degree GoLite down quilt (they say they don't use live plucked stuff) because of the price, weight and reviews but I ended up going with the bag version because while it cost a little bit more it had the same list weight and i figured it would be a little warmer than the quilt.  I'm guessing the bag might be slightly more bulky than the quilt though.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 12:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just got back from two nights out - woke up to crunchy Nalgenes, thick frost on EVERYTHING including the tents, and 30F at breakfast time with the sun peeking down on us.

My three season Jacks R Better Hudson River and a midweight base layer, plus some heavier merino socks than usual. Wool cap. A good pad with an R value of 5. Very warm indeed.

Everyone else was cold in their mummy bags, but that was no surprise. Well, there was one lady - I loaned her my 0 degree Marmot winter bag, and she had a very heavy Camp Bed pad from REI (R value of 7) who did well also. But the other four hit the bottom of their gear - a 20F rated REI sleeping bag plus a NeoAir paired with a Z Rest, a Mountain Hardware Lamina of some sort paired with a Z Rest, a -20 rated bag (the occupant didn't have any pad at all and figured the rating of the bag would do the job... huh).

Very happy with my five year old quilt and taking it with me again over four days this Thanksgiving. I'm with Ray - quilts are the bomb.

Good article, Ray.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 12:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I like my Hudson River, too, but I don't take it (except as an over-quilt) much below freezing.  I think it will go to 25, as rated, with a good pad for most folks but I think I hit the wall at around 30 degrees with it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 12:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm starting to think that a lot of what people consider a bag failure is really a lack of pad.

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(skinewmexico @ Nov. 13 2012, 12:28 am)
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I'm starting to think that a lot of what people consider a bag failure is really a lack of pad.

I agree.  For many, especially those new to backpacking, a pad is an afterthought.  
When I first started backpacking (dinosaurs still roamed) I didn't use a pad at all.  When available, I used evergreen boughs, etc. but I don't think that there were commercial options.  Well, if there were, I didn't notice.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 7:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(IAJeff @ Nov. 12 2012, 7:24 pm)
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I have looked at the Enlightened Equipment site and it looks very good. Would like to hear how it arrives and your testing. I think that is what I want to go with too. Please keep us informed.

Thanks Ray for getting me to buy more gear. Pretty soon an addition will be required.

I am sorry if something I wrote made you think I was getting an EE quilt Jeff. I am not, I just know enough people that have them to recommend them to the budget minded. (I say that because if price is no object I suggest, and own, Nunatak Gear.)

Ha, if you want to stay static with your gear stay away from this site. Actually, just lurk/read for a year or so and then start buying. I went through my entire kit about three times before getting it down. But that is part of the learning process. And it ends up with most of your family members now have gear to hike with you with. ;-)


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 7:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Nov. 12 2012, 8:29 pm)
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What must they be paying ray to redirect traffic?

Just kiddin you, man.  You do a great service to us.

I wish TDale, I wish.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 7:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(LiteMan @ Nov. 12 2012, 8:53 pm)
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Good article Ray.  I was looking at the 1 season/40 degree GoLite down quilt (they say they don't use live plucked stuff) because of the price, weight and reviews but I ended up going with the bag version because while it cost a little bit more it had the same list weight and i figured it would be a little warmer than the quilt.  I'm guessing the bag might be slightly more bulky than the quilt though.

Well it will be a little warmer than the quilt.

Normally I would say a lot but GoLite took into account the fact that the mummy shape and the hood are going to be warmer so gave the same-rated quilt more fill. Making an educated guess I'd say the quilt has about 1.5 oz more down which is in a smaller space. Plus the down that is just spread due to the hood and back makes it about the "equivalent" of 2+ oz more.

It should be just a bit bulkier, but I bet it is hard to notice. I wouldn't doubt they ship with the same stuff sacks.

Enjoy it this summer.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 12:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks Ray, i will, but i intend to use it for more than just summer as i live in VA, and i have very warm alpaca clothing.  I also have some goose down apparel from before i knew about certain issues with down.  I'm sure i can bring it down to the coldest temps that VA has to offer.  (Also, i know meditative techniques to raise my body temp at will).
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 2:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(LiteMan @ Nov. 13 2012, 9:50 am)
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(Also, i know meditative techniques to raise my body temp at will).

Why bother with a sleeping bag or quilt at all....?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 3:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

***pulls hands away from keyboard***

(You can do it Ray, just go, go...)

;-)


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(rayestrella @ Nov. 13 2012, 3:48 pm)
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***pulls hands away from keyboard***

(You can do it Ray, just go, go...)

;-)

Almost did it, anyway.

:laugh:


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(Tigger @ Nov. 13 2012, 2:13 pm)
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(LiteMan @ Nov. 13 2012, 9:50 am)
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(Also, i know meditative techniques to raise my body temp at will).

Why bother with a sleeping bag or quilt at all....?

Because who wants to meditate every time it's cold outside or they become cold?  Maybe Tibetan monks don't mind doing that, but i wouldn't want to.  Also, i don't know if i can do it while asleep.  I've only ever done it when conscious.  Maybe at some point i can get to that point, but i'm not there yet.  






p.s. there are plenty of people in the West and East who can do these things--it's not that hard, just takes right practice, belief or rather lack of blocking beliefs, and focused intention.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 5:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You guys need to read more. Raising body temperature with meditation was validated 30 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/1982....on.html

http://web.archive.org/web....ttp
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 6:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(LiteMan @ Nov. 13 2012, 2:45 pm)
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(Tigger @ Nov. 13 2012, 2:13 pm)
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(LiteMan @ Nov. 13 2012, 9:50 am)
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(Also, i know meditative techniques to raise my body temp at will).

Why bother with a sleeping bag or quilt at all....?

Because who wants to meditate every time it's cold outside or they become cold?  

Because you can...Talk about ultralight backpacking.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 13 2012, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TrailTramper @ Nov. 13 2012, 5:48 pm)
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You guys need to read more. Raising body temperature with meditation was validated 30 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/1982....on.html

http://web.archive.org/web....ttp

That's great. At least when your core temp drops and you die, your toes and fingers won't be black from frostbite.
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