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Topic: I said I would never do it, Canister stove< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 3:41 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I said I would never do it but here I am looking at getting a canister stove and relegating my old faithful Apex II to car camping, canoe trips and perhaps short overnighters.  I'm in a bit of a regearing phase at the moment, looking to lighten the load a bit for those multi-day backpacking adventures. I've already made the switch to a tarp and switched from a water filter to tablets. Corky the Wonder Dog even got her own pack this year so she can carry her own food and gear (if looks could kill).

I've done some research and was pretty much set on the Snowpeak Giga but then started to consider the MSR Windpro II.  Both have enough power and the simmering ability that I want but I'm attracted to the remote burner set up of the Windpro for its stability and the increased safety in terms of canister overheating. The other consideration is the weight comparison: From what I can tell the Snowpeak together with the recommended windscreen and canister stand comes in about 175g/6.2oz.  Add the auto ignition and you’re up to 200g/7oz.  For the Windpro, the MSR website gives a minimum weight of 187g/6.6oz and a packed weight of 327g/11.5oz. That's quite a spread and I'm not sure how they calculate those values. I guess the min weight would exclude the windscreen, heat reflector and canister stand but that still seems like quite a differential.
Either choice would be an improvement over the 18.5oz the Apex II comes in at.

Any thoughts?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Cooking style is the issue: drop simmering and a Whitebox or other alcohol burner does it at less weight, fuss and expense. And far less hassle for air travelers where compatible canisters have to be scrounged at the destination since their banned from commercial aircraft.

I use a canister in the desert (have since the 60's) but otherwise they're my least favorite. Largely I don't like having to deal with the empties during a route.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 4:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I made the switch from a liquid fuel to a canister about 2 years ago. All I really do in the backcountry for food is boil water for dehydrated dinners (Mary Jane Farm are the best!) and for breakfast (oatmeal and coffee).

For that, nothing beats the simplicity of a canister stove. I've got the Snow Peak Giga stove with the piezo starter and the windscreen. I use the Snow Peak Titanium Trek 700 mug to boil the water for the meals and then use it to drink my coffee. The stove and canister fit inside the mug. Brilliant!

I've used canisters down to the mid teens and they work just fine.

As was mentioned, you can't pack canisters on a flight. I would think a little bit of planning would provide a place to purchase at your destination.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 4:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've got botht the Snowpeak Gigapower with the ignitor and the MSR Windpro. I don't have the windscreen for the Gigapower and it works fine for me. It's a great light weight stove and offers great pot support with the 4 supports. I bought the Windpro for use with my Outback Oven. It works great but it is a lot bigger, bulkier and heavier than the Gigapower. Having only 3 pot supports it is a little more tippier than the Gigapower.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 5:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One thing as mentioned: temperature. They've gotten a LOT better at low temperature performance since back in the pure Butane days when a canister at sub 32F  (the vapor temp of Butane) would sputter and die and when you disconnected it you could pour the liquified Butane out of it...

Now they do some clever mixes and when you add in, as you can, inverted designs, canisters have real world low temperature performance that  the "traditional" take on them might not give them credit for with the memories of the pure Butane days.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 10:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 21 2012, 3:47 pm)
QUOTE
Cooking style is the issue: drop simmering and a Whitebox or other alcohol burner does it at less weight, fuss and expense. And far less hassle for air travelers where compatible canisters have to be scrounged at the destination since their banned from commercial aircraft.

I use a canister in the desert (have since the 60's) but otherwise they're my least favorite. Largely I don't like having to deal with the empties during a route.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 9:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have lots of different stoves and I gotta say my Pocket Rocket sees the most use. Lots of bang for the buck. It doesn't fool around-boils as quickly as anything else I know of and comes in a cool triangular crush-proof plastic case. I spent a week on the AT recently and the canister lasted all week and ran out at the end of the last meal on the last day.
It's best to have many different stoves as you can always find fuel for at least one of them. The flying thing would be a pain though as one poster pointed out.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Cooking style is not the only issue - Altitude and fishing, (or the cooking of said fish) also figures into the equation.

High Sierra regulationss - above 10,000 feet means No Fires, which is reasonable as you are above tree line and no available wood is the norm. At lower elevations, usually I cook trout "packages" wrapped in aluminum foil over a bed of coals but with the altitude issue...need a stove. White gas smells, is heavy, and thus not considered an option . In addition, alcohol types, great for weight but are short on BTU's.

The cooking of trout requires a hot wide flame. Pocket rocket types are great for boil and bag meals but have a small concentrated flame pattern and are a bit tipsy/tippy for fry-pan-above use.
The only other option is a remote canister stove which are lower, more stable (as compared to canister-under, pocket rocket types) and coincidentally, allow a wind screen to be safely used.

Additionally, as canisters now come filled with a (iso-butane/propane?) blend, the ability to invert the canister in cold weather conditions can be dramatic. Often just flipping the canister immediately charges up the stove, especially when cold.

I carry the Windpro I - the older model.  BTW, the newer model , Windpro II is the same as the old stove but has an elbow in the feed line, and a plastic thing to hold the canister inverted making inversion easier but ...turning the canister over was not that hard to start with...still, a better design. I like the low, stable stance, the wide flame pattern, and ability to simmer...just like cooking at home over a gas range.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(QCHIKER @ Nov. 21 2012, 4:57 pm)
QUOTE
I've got botht the Snowpeak Gigapower with the ignitor and the MSR Windpro. I don't have the windscreen for the Gigapower and it works fine for me. It's a great light weight stove and offers great pot support with the 4 supports. I bought the Windpro for use with my Outback Oven. It works great but it is a lot bigger, bulkier and heavier than the Gigapower. Having only 3 pot supports it is a little more tippier than the Gigapower.

Love my gigapower stove. I mainly boil water in my 700ml cup for cooking, but now that I figured out the secret to browning rolls in my mug, I'm liking it a whole lot more than my cat food can stove (which has one setting - full blast).
I can put up with a lot of crap when there's hot buttered rolls at the end of my day.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 10:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markskor @ Nov. 22 2012, 11:08 am)
QUOTE
Pocket rocket types are great for boil and bag meals but have small concentrated flame pattern and are a bit tipsy/tippy

The only other option is a remote canister stove which are lower, more stable (as compared to canister-under, pocket rocket types) and coincidentally, allow a wind screen to be safely used.

Additionally, as canisters now come filled with a (iso-butane/propane?) blend, the ability to invert the canister in cold weather conditions can be dramatic. Often just flipping the canister immediately charges up the stove, especially when cold.

I carry the Windpro I - the older model.  BTW, the newer model , Windpro II is the same as the old stove but has an elbow in the feed line, and a plastic thing to hold the canister inverted making inversion easier but ...turning the canister over was not that hard to start with...still, a better design. I like the low, stable stance, the wide flame pattern, and ability to simmer...just like cooking at home over a gas range.

Thanks all for your thoughts.

I agree with High_Sierra_Fan & eggs regarding having to pack out empty canisters.  They weigh almost as much empty as full.

Air travel is not an issue for me but simmering ability is.

markskor's post mirrors my thoughts the best.  The extra weight aside, the Windpro would be my choice. I guess I'll have to go down to MEC for some hands-on evaluation before sending that letter off to Santa. There sure is a wide spread between the Windpro's stated minimum weight of 187g/6.6oz and a packed weight of 327g/11.5oz.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 10:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(theosus @ Nov. 22 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE
...now that I figured out the secret to browning rolls in my mug, I'm liking it a whole lot more than my cat food can stove (which has one setting - full blast).
I can put up with a lot of crap when there's hot buttered rolls at the end of my day.

Hmmmm

Got a recipe for that?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 11:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Crockett @ Nov. 23 2012, 10:25 am)
QUOTE

(theosus @ Nov. 22 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE
...now that I figured out the secret to browning rolls in my mug, I'm liking it a whole lot more than my cat food can stove (which has one setting - full blast).
I can put up with a lot of crap when there's hot buttered rolls at the end of my day.

Hmmmm

Got a recipe for that?

I'd like the recipe also!
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 11:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dabrador @ Nov. 23 2012, 11:26 am)
QUOTE

(Crockett @ Nov. 23 2012, 10:25 am)
QUOTE

(theosus @ Nov. 22 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE
...now that I figured out the secret to browning rolls in my mug, I'm liking it a whole lot more than my cat food can stove (which has one setting - full blast).
I can put up with a lot of crap when there's hot buttered rolls at the end of my day.

Hmmmm

Got a recipe for that?

I'd like the recipe also!

There's no real recipe. It's easy to do though. You have to keep the roll off the bottom of your mug and heat the air inside it.
Get a couple of lengths of thin wire (I used steel aircraft safety wire. it's about 20 gauge) and bend them. They should form an X about an inch off the bottom of your mug, and make little hooks at the top so they hook over the lip of the cup. Place roll on X, put lid on mug. I turn my gigapower on to the bare minimum flame, and let the roll heat about five minutes. Do NOT butter the roll before putting it in, if anything drops on the bottom of the mug it will burn.

I use Wal-mart "brown-n-serve rolls. Before your trip, wrap rolls in a paper towel, stick in ziplock bag and put somewhere where they won't get squished until it is time to cook them. A plastic "kids cup" works well, or even inside your titanium mug, if your stove isn't in there. I take along some fake butter packs from restaurants. Anything they leave sitting out unrefrigerated is fine...

Alcohol stoves do not work with this method. They create something resembling a charcoal briquette.

I predict within a year REI will sell this cooking system as a kit, complete with wire frame and hard plastic roll protecting sleeve, for $54.99. Make your roll-cooker 4000 today, before it gets patented!


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 12:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Crockett

The packed weight looks like it might include a canister? The assumption being you wouldn't "pack" the stove without fuel to make it functional.

The math looks about right as well, though maybe a little light depending on the canister.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 9:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 24 2012, 12:41 am)
QUOTE
Crockett

The packed weight looks like it might include a canister? The assumption being you wouldn't "pack" the stove without fuel to make it functional.

The math looks about right as well, though maybe a little light depending on the canister.

I hadn't thought of that and your right re the math - little light unless they are considering an empty canister (pack-out weight?).

I always thought of packed weight being as it is bought - packaging and all and minimum weight being the bare bones. Using a tent as an analogy, minimum weight would be sans footprint, fly, stakes, etc.

Anyway, I've sent them an email query & I'll post their response when it is received.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2012, 8:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, I received a reply from Andrew of Cascade Designs' customer service:

"Thank you for contacting Cascade Designs, Inc. I had a chance to put the WindPro II on our postal scale, and the brand new one I weighed was 6.9 oz for the stove alone, and the stuff sack with everything else (canister stand, manuals, heat reflector & windscreen, etc.) was an additional 5.4 oz for a total of 12.3 oz. There was a bit of packaging that you would end up removing that would make it slightly lighter."

Can't say I was expecting them to actually weigh the thing.  Kudos to Andrew for his excellent response.

So all that's left is a decision.
Thanks again, All, for your input.
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