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MoonNerd 
Group: Members
Posts: 58
Joined: Aug. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 19 2013, 10:54 pm |
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Do you think the NG Topo maps are worth the expense? I don't have a GPS yet, but will be getting a Garmin GPSmaps 62 next month. I know some of the disappointment with the maps regards what a GPS can do with them. But I would
also be printing them and using the hard copy on the trail.
BTW - it would be used on a PC, and I know some Mac users have had issues. Thanks for any input.
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| Post Number: 2
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overthehillwalker
Group: Members
Posts: 579
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 2:08 am |
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My hiking/backcountry modus operandi is topo. Having a GPS would actually spoil the fun of navigating and eliminate a pleasureable component of backcountry travel for me. I use USGS 40 minute maps, folded per a consistent process and laminated for long-term abuse.
I did buy the NatGeo map software for printing at home but found it non-intuitive, not the best print etc. I returned the software.
I would qualify my remarks by adding my backcountry travel is typically in Utah, Colorado, Nevada and Wyoming.
P.S. I do borrow my wife's GPS for business travel within the US where a rental car is involved.
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| Post Number: 3
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4788
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 6:53 am |
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Maps? GPS? Where's your sense of adventure? 
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 4
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AlmostThere
I must not be there yet, I keep hiking...
Group: Members
Posts: 4872
Joined: Apr. 2008
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 9:14 am |
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Before you buy any maps, make sure they will load on the Garmin.
Garmin is notorious for making you spend the bucks on maps.
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All truly great thoughts are conceived by walking.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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| Post Number: 5
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skinewmexico
Group: Members
Posts: 1878
Joined: Sep. 2008
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 10:43 am |
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I thought the NatGeo topos were a pain to download, and more trouble than they were worth.
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Con men understand that their job is not to use facts to convince skeptics but to use words to help the gullible to believe what they want to believe. - Thomas Sowell
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| Post Number: 6
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dayhiker9
Group: Members
Posts: 5297
Joined: Apr. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 11:00 am |
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I liked the NG software, but I was using it long before I had a GPS. And as noted you can't put those maps on your GPS, but you can transfer waypoints , routes or tracks from that software to your GPS and to the Garmin map software.
I was just looking at what they might have for Idaho, and apparently it isn't the same.
You just rent online access?
The first two reviews are negative regarding the changes, the rest seem to like because they can see the maps on their iPhones?!! It also covers the entire US.
The other problem with NG maps, before and after this change is except for National Parks, they are just USGS maps, you can often find better paper maps for popular areas, that have been updated and show more. The National Park maps were made by Trails Illustrated which NG bought out (If I remember right).
You can still buy those maps in the paper version.
I found some free maps online, but I can't draw or make a GPS route with them to transfer to my GPS , and my Garmin maps don't show enough for me to draw a route. I may have to buy the more detailed Garmin maps(but they aren't suppose to be very good either), but I am going to look for the free (GPSfiledepot?) maps first. I think different Garmin GPSs accept different types of third party maps but I have only done for mine and for Oregon. (And on my PC not my Mac)
Did you find a place to buy the old software?
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" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers." Krugman
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| Post Number: 7
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wildlifenate
Group: Members
Posts: 5830
Joined: Jul. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 11:18 am |
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I haven't used the new NG Topo, but I have a copy of the old one. The maps printed nice (better than any other software based maps I've seen) but the software is crap for working with GPS stuff. It didn't support even some of the more basic file protocols that most GPS receivers support. Useless. Frankly, I haven't used the software in years.
If you want to put topo maps onto your GPS, you want to look at www.gpsfiledepot.com. Free.
If you want a computer program for visualizing and organizing GPS data, look into Topofusion. It downloads maps from online servers like Google Earth, but it does USGS topos, several flavors of satellite imagery depending on where you live and what you're looking for, and can have additional map servers added to it. It will geotag photos, give you elevation profiles, and do all kinds of other cool things. It will print maps, but they don't look all that great. It can load any of its maps onto the newer Garmin GPS receivers that support raster maps. They don't replace vector topos from gpsfiledepot, but they can supplement.
I'd suggest looking at the new usgs maps if you want to print. They're the US Topo maps that come in geopdf format and have layers you can enable/disable. The files come in 8 1/2 x 11 for easy printing on regular paper. They are also free.
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The GPS Geek
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| Post Number: 8
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39513
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 5:19 pm |
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At least in the past and I don't see why they'd have changed their approach, NG TOPO! differed from the Garmin maps in that the NG were bit-mapped while the Garmin are vector objects. The significance of that difference is that things like trails and roads are selectable objects with vectors while they're simply a different colored pixel on a bit mapped image. And that means you can select a trail simply by "clicking" on a segment in a Garmin map, building your on trail route anyway, as you go, while for NG TOPO! it's a hand trace endeavor which for longer routes get's tedious and depending on how steady your hand is, less and less accurate as your route length grows.
In either or any case for hiking the 1:24K scale are what is most usable having the degree of detail walkers really need.
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| Post Number: 10
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nogods
Group: Members
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 9:13 am |
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ExpertGPS is another great mapping program that downloads topo maps and aerial photos. it also allows you to import a photo of a map to create your own style maps. And it will save your custom maps to your 62s directly without having to go through 10 steps to create a Custom map.
I also use the garmin topo and aerial map service ($30/yr subscription for both) but they are more of a convenience than anything else because ExpertGPS does all i need.
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CampinCarl
Group: Members
Posts: 248
Joined: May 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 12:58 pm |
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Here is a post to avoid some confusion on US Topo.
The USGS link to the Map Locator is here:
Map Locator & Downloader
This site includes the new US Topo series as well as previous versions.
Another site that may include better trail information is the US Forest Service version of the US Topo located here:
FSTopo or Primary Base Series / States & Territories
Finally, the caveat is that the trails are only based on the best available data at the time the map was made, so don't be surprised if you are on the trail and the GPS coordinate doesn't align with where the map says the trail is.
Ok, now go and enjoy wasting lots of time downloading topos! 
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"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where Nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul alike." - John Muir
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| Post Number: 13
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MoonNerd
Group: Members
Posts: 58
Joined: Aug. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 1:11 pm |
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guys - this is awesome info. Thanks a lot.
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| Post Number: 14
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MoonNerd
Group: Members
Posts: 58
Joined: Aug. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 5:25 pm |
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One more question... normally I use 24K maps. In your opinion, how useful are 100K maps? Specifically, if I was looking at buying a new Garmin GPS, do you recommend getting the t version with 100K maps, or not, and just adding the ones you want. Thanks again.
And Nate, BTW, the upcoming Oregon 600 series looks like a real possibility.
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| Post Number: 15
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big_load
Group: Members
Posts: 21817
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 5:29 pm |
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It depends on the application. For paper, I usually use 24k maps printed at half-size. On a handheld device, 100K maps might be OK if you just care about the relative positions of major features. I wouldn't count on one to guess whether there is a passable route between two points.
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| Post Number: 16
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| Post Number: 17
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dayhiker9
Group: Members
Posts: 5297
Joined: Apr. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 11:10 pm |
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wildlifenate
I wonder if I am doing something wrong. The ones I download are brown on white, except some blue for creeks and lakes. And the tool bar does not work on Macs, so I don't know if that does something.
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" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers." Krugman
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| Post Number: 19
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Three
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Group: Members
Posts: 746
Joined: Dec. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 1:15 pm |
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(big_load @ Feb. 21 2013, 5:29 pm)
QUOTE It depends on the application. For paper, I usually use 24k maps printed at half-size. On a handheld device, 100K maps might be OK if you just care about the relative positions of major features. I wouldn't count on one to guess whether there is a passable route between two points.
I agree with this. I use "paper" maps at 1:24,000, 1:25,000 or, less preferably, 1:50,000 backed-up by a non-mapping GPS.
I would go anywhere serious without a paper map, but then again maybe I'm a dinosaur.
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| Post Number: 20
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dayhiker9
Group: Members
Posts: 5297
Joined: Apr. 2003
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2013, 7:52 am |
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wouldn't ? go anywhere
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" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers." Krugman
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