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Topic: What pushed you to add GPS to your arsenal?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2013, 10:13 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've been a diehard map and compass guy since I started backpacking. On my last trip two weeks ago, I got lost for the first time...temporarily. On my way in, there was a portion where the trail was under heavy flowing snowmelt as well as covered in snow for a large portion. Three days later when I made my way back, I couldn't pick the trail back up. Snow had melted, water was flowing faster. nothing looked familiar. After about an hour of searching, my girlfriend found our trail. I was a bit upset with myself as this had never happened before. If I had a GPS that tracked me, it would have been no problem to backtrack.

So, why did you go GPS? Just because? Because of a situation similar to mine? Why?


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2013, 10:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seems like a good place for it.  Should be able to find your way with map and compass if GPS fails (which you did eventually).  Whiteout , tailless dense tree cover without any other features to go by etc. , seems like  place for it.  Quicker (unless just going with your gut works out etc. - I have been with groups who would not want to wait for me to look at my GPS), more feeling of certainty, able to see where one has been.  Also some times it takes me awhile to match the features of the map with the terrain, since different maps have different scales, and some features may or may not be reflected on the map etc.  I also took it to the Wind River Mtns, which might have gotten snow, and the trails have been renamed a few times but the signs don't always reflect it etc.

It wasn't because I was lost, but because I did not want to be , esp. above tree line in a whiteout.  Once on St Helens everything looked the same below us, so knowing where in treeline to go could be confusing etc.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2013, 10:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was issued one when I joined SAR, will probably give it back and go back to maps when I leave.

Being able to not panic and hunker down when necessary to avoid trying to navigate under pressure is more my thing.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 12:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Laziness, easiness, and safety.

I hike off-trail, pretty much exclusively. I tend to push myself more and more as years go by. I attempt things that I would never have thought of to do and in much worse weather. It's hard to navigate when you have nothing for visual reference (snow storm, heavy rains/cloud cover, fog). Often in those circumstances, a GPS will get me right on track quickly. I hike at night often as well. Sometimes, even all night - I often start a hike after dark on a Friday evening. A GPS makes navigation in the dark much easier - set my bearing on my compass, hike for a few hours, pull out the GPS and confirm coordinates, set bearing hike for a few hours...repeat.

That...and I love being able to hike in a general direction focusing more on the terrain and enjoying it, whipping out my GPS and being able to determine my exact location so I can adjust my bearing and go to a specific location. Strangely, I pretty much always use my compass itself to get my initial bearing and then use the shadows of the trees and my shoulder for keeping on my bearing vs. keeping a GPS or compass out.

I carry an ancient GPS, a phone GPS app, two "real" compasses, one of those little marble compasses, and two maps of an area on me during my hikes. I prefer looking at the full map (vs. a downloaded map) and I really only pay attention to the coordinates most of the time and then use the map to determine a course as I like the detail and scale of the Quad maps.

They have all saved my bacon or at least made my hike much easier at some point. There's been a few longer trips where I pulled out a map once or twice and that's it and never had to bother with a compass or a GPS but that doesn't happen often. Mind you, terrain and weather had much to do with that.

I don't know the exact thing it was that drove me, but I was really happy when I got it (although it took/takes 20 minutes to get a lock on three satellites often). I got it around 20 years ago. It goes in my pack on pretty much every trip - even in areas I am extremely comfortable with hiking in.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 1:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gros Morne (The Long Range Traverse) required the carrying of one of their VHF beacons on routes out across the rather featureless portions of the park ( they still do but allow a substitution of ones own SPOT or PLB). So I figured GPS tech was made for that sort of terrain. It did help. Then, back in the Sierra, I shelved the rather primitive version (Magellan 12xl) as not worth the weight for more understandable terrain. Which is where things stood until a reasonable map display model arrived on the scene and I bought a 60Csx.

My primary navigation tools are still a USGS quad and my Thommens analog altimeter, but the display is a fun way to "peek" over nearby ridge lines and is there were I to need a restricted visibility orientation.

Digital maps at home are part of my trip prep, but out there I tend to use a map sheet and my eyes a lot more than instruments. But mountain terrain lends itself to that, other areas, say ones with a full forest over, and I'd be more likely to use the gps.

The problem with the OPs thought of laying a "Breadcrumbs" track to follow back out is running a GPS full time burns through batteries. But if its turned off you don't get the track to backtrack...
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 2:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 23 2013, 1:22 am)
QUOTE
The problem with the OPs thought of laying a "Breadcrumbs" track to follow back out is running a GPS full time burns through batteries. But if its turned off you don't get the track to backtrack...

Yes, I find it easy enough to get back just by reading the position.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 6:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ May 23 2013, 12:13 am)
QUOTE
Laziness, easiness, and safety.

I hike off-trail, pretty much exclusively. I tend to push myself more and more as years go by. I attempt things that I would never have thought of to do and in much worse weather. It's hard to navigate when you have nothing for visual reference (snow storm, heavy rains/cloud cover, fog). Often in those circumstances, a GPS will get me right on track quickly. I hike at night often as well. Sometimes, even all night - I often start a hike after dark on a Friday evening. A GPS makes navigation in the dark much easier - set my bearing on my compass, hike for a few hours, pull out the GPS and confirm coordinates, set bearing hike for a few hours...repeat.

That...and I love being able to hike in a general direction focusing more on the terrain and enjoying it, whipping out my GPS and being able to determine my exact location so I can adjust my bearing and go to a specific location. Strangely, I pretty much always use my compass itself to get my initial bearing and then use the shadows of the trees and my shoulder for keeping on my bearing vs. keeping a GPS or compass out.

Ditto for me.

Plus it is a great aid in writing up trail reports, especially the ones with significant bushwhacking,  and I use the recorded track to coordinate my pictures.  

I still carry a map and compass, and use them along with the GPS to get a larger and better view of my location and surroundings.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 7:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Whiteout , tailless dense tree cover without any other features to go by etc. , seems like  place for it.

Those are times a GPS won't work.

I have one but it's probably 15 years or more old. No maps or other features and the last time I used it was to waypoint and mark the corners of a friend's property on a map (he didn't need surveyor accuracy, just general) some 4 years ago.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 8:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I use my Galaxy S3 which has an independent GPS in airplane mode.  I preloaded topo, terrain and satellite maps with the Backcountry Navigator app.  I can instantly see where I'm at and calculate distances easily.  I can also pre load offtrail routes.  No need for an extra GPS device.  Extra batteries are extremely light.  I only used 1.5 batteries in 7 days in the Winds.  The convenience and usefulness made me add it.  Of course I have a map and compass as well.  Electronics can and do fail..

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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 12:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 23 2013, 4:39 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Whiteout , tailless dense tree cover without any other features to go by etc. , seems like  place for it.

Those are times a GPS won't work.

I have one but it's probably 15 years or more old. No maps or other features and the last time I used it was to waypoint and mark the corners of a friend's property on a map (he didn't need surveyor accuracy, just general) some 4 years ago.

? ? ?

Maybe your 15 years old, obsolete, POS won't (certainly my similar era Magellan 12XL wouldn't, well, the snow wouldn't bother it but the tree cover would as the tech hadn't been refined to handle non-direct transmision receptions as the newer chipsets have, heck my 60Csx pins the location of my dining room table which is about 20 feet from the window with zero view of any sky... oh and so does my iPhone with it's much less sophisticated gps chipset) but even my 5 years old 60Csx works fine in those conditons and worse.

Overgeneralize much?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 1:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I still do not carry a GPS when hiking, but I do when kayaking now.  I have discovered that mangrove islands all pretty much look the same from water level, and my maps do not help much when trying to decide if that inlet is which one of many shown on the chart.  I use it to determine my exact location, so I can properly chart my next move.  

I figure some hikers use GPS for the same thing, but I am usually on a well worn trail, and I am becoming more adept at figuring out where I am.  Mistakes still happen, but I am generally just moving further down the trail and it will straighten itself out sooner or later.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Phrased poorly. A GPS can still work but the accuracy is highly suspect. Would you accept a 50' or 100' accuracy while on a ridge in a whiteout?

QUOTE
Any obstructions in the area of the GPS antenna can cause a very significant reduction in accuracy. Examples of interfering obstructions include: buildings, trees, fences, cables etc. Obstructions may have the following effects thereby reducing accuracy:

http://earthmeasurement.com/GPS_accuracy.html


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 1:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 23 2013, 11:31 am)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ May 23 2013, 4:39 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Whiteout , tailless dense tree cover without any other features to go by etc. , seems like  place for it.

Those are times a GPS won't work.

I have one but it's probably 15 years or more old. No maps or other features and the last time I used it was to waypoint and mark the corners of a friend's property on a map (he didn't need surveyor accuracy, just general) some 4 years ago.

? ? ?

Maybe your 15 years old, obsolete, POS won't (certainly my similar era Magellan 12XL wouldn't, well, the snow wouldn't bother it but the tree cover would as the tech hadn't been refined to handle non-direct transmision receptions as the newer chipsets have, heck my 60Csx pins the location of my dining room table which is about 20 feet from the window with zero view of any sky... oh and so does my iPhone with it's much less sophisticated gps chipset) but even my 5 years old 60Csx works fine in those conditons and worse.

Overgeneralize much?

shoot, even my ipod touch WITHOUT a GPS pins my location pretty precisely within the house because there are so many wifi networks nearby.

But yeah, a modern GPS receiver is pretty solid on acquiring a location.  Doing the on/off thing to do spot checks forcing the GPS to reacquire every time can take awhile in dense cover.  This is one argument for leaving it on and tracking your hike.  It is more efficient use of your time because you're not stopping and waiting for the GPS to acquire a location.

But as mentioned, doing that SUCKS batteries dry.  For the OP's situation, returning to a spot 3 days later, you have to remember to save your activity because sifting through auto archived tracks (if the device supports that function) on the device isn't easy.

My Oregon 450 will auto-archive when the tracklog fills up, and it names them based on the date and time that they were archived, which can make it tough to figure out which one you want.  If you manually save them, you can give them a descriptive title.

For example, when you reached the snowfield, you could have turned the GPS on to track your movement until you got across it, and then saved that track "snowfield detour" or something so you could come back to it and backtrack along it when you need.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From that same link:
" it is necessary that the signal from the GPS satellite travels directly from the satellite to the GPS antenna."

Wow is that out of date. The chipset in my old 60Csx can accomodate reflective multipaths. Hence it's ability to nail my dining room table location within a few meters. With, I'll repeat, ZERO direct signal travel.

To give them the benefit of the doubt, yes, my way old Magellan 12XL would be unusable without direct transmission paths, and even then it's positioning was subject to some very annoying wandering (I tested it by simply setting it to record and leaving it outside on a patio table for a few hours: miles of "travel", no doubt reflecting the changung staellite viewing conditons over that time span rsulting in a tangle of "route" my patio table had NOT done.

ETA: wildlifenate, yeah my phone will nag me to turn on WiFi if I use maps somewhere while I'm saving battery by having WiFi turned off.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have found my phone's GPS to be plenty close enough for work in a whiteout. Would I be hiking on a ridge in the middle of said whiteout? No. I'd be sitting in my shelter waiting for a decent enough clearing. I have never found a "real" need to be more accurate than 50 - 100 ft. More often than not, that is more than plenty enough.

In regards to data points, my trick is to always set my destination(s) on a route as points 2-? and the car as 1. I don't leave my GPS on and don't mind waiting a few minutes to lock-in.

My "backup" GPS....can take ages and has all sorts of problems with tree cover, heavy cloud cover and the color green but I'll still keep it as an emergency backup.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 4:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My older model Garmin Legend C, before SD cards, can fix the position inside my house as I sit here at the computer, away from any windows. I’m sure the newer chip sets can grab the satellites even faster under even more cover.  There are times in canyon country that when in real deep with steep walls, it will loose lock for a while.

In canyon country the GPS is only partially a help even when I have a very good position of camp. The GPS simply cannot tell you how to get there and the countless moves to get from one point to another can’t be backtracked reliably. The routes are too precise and complicated, like a three dimensional chess game, never heading in any direction for more than ten feet.

I got a GPS because I wanted a moving, zoomable map to compliment my more detailed custom printed paper maps and I like to mark a lot of spots as precisely and quickly as possible. I still mark the most important sites with a compass too. However I don’t carry the GPS, Girlfriend does. A 1:24000 paper map and a good sighting compass are both in my camera bag right at hand. Your own spatial awareness and visual acuity are just as important as map, compass or GPS in the country we tend to travel the most.

As for battery life, that was a big criterion when researching and purchasing. The Garmin Legend C has a battery life for 2 AA’s of 36 hours, twice what the others were at the time if I recall. We just leave it on most of the time when moving.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 4:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"The GPS simply cannot tell you how to get there"

And THAT is the key point in my view. Far too many, understandably for sure as we all extrapolate from the familiar, see a wilderness gps unit as the functional equivalent of a car gps with it's "turn by turn" directions. While nothing could be further from the truth.

Hence even the all too frequent "I'll just waypoint my car or trailhead" for the return can easily fail when that big red arrow pointing at your car is ignoring that in between you and your car is one big cliff and a bigger river..... (I seem to recall that very scenario was the basis for a PNW rescue some time back: people stranded on a  cliff having followed the gps directions "back" to a waypointed vehicle. but the gps pointed directly back...)

Yes in rough ground there's the macro, which a map display gps or USGS quad is good for, but then there is always the micro: where you put that next foot and where exactly your makeable route flows. And that last is always eyes and experience.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 5:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thank you for all the input! I'm going to start looking into GPS devices. I'll only treat it as a luxury though.

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(Scot @ May 23 2013, 2:11 pm)
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Thank you for all the input! I'm going to start looking into GPS devices. I'll only treat it as a luxury though.

When you've laid out a route on your home computer and uploaded into your handheld unit the "are we there yet?" is far easier to answer. As is "I wonder what's just over that ridgeline a quarter mile that way? Maybe a nice twisty litle stream or meadow for pictures?"

Not earthshattering or the device for legends, but a convenience nonetheless. I think these days, budget permitting, even for solely an OMG moment unit I'd opt for a map display, that single interface rather than having to deal with transferring UTM coordinates from the screen to a USGS quad would be of special utility at a time of stress (big unanticipated storm, lost in the dark, etc.).
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 7:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why not?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There is a reason all search and rescue teams learn and use map and compass, and practice it on an ongoing basis. GPS units are OFTEN wrong, and when it's mission critical, you just can't afford a half a mile of wrong.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Wow is that out of date. The chipset in my old 60Csx can accomodate reflective multipaths. Hence it's ability to nail my dining room table location within a few meters. With, I'll repeat, ZERO direct signal travel.

From personal experience with radio direction finding, multipathing of any signal can and will seriously displace the location of the receiver and/or transmitter.
If you "locate" your dining room table at various times during the day, you'll get varying locations ranging from dead on to several meters off, possibly as much as 30m-40m, particularly if you're moving the receiver around.
A static receiver will show more accuracy over a lengthy time period but is it real world to not move your GPS around while on the trail?
Granted that newer units are more sensitive and more accurate in most cases, there are still many things that can "move" one a significant distance from ground zero.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 10:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 23 2013, 10:06 pm)
QUOTE
Granted that newer units are more sensitive and more accurate in most cases, there are still many things that can "move" one a significant distance from ground zero.

Apparently, one hike while eating lunch, I traveled about 50 - 100 feet repeatedly in several directions around the rock I was sitting on... it's what the track shows.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2013, 11:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"From personal experience with radio direction finding, multipathing of any signal can and will seriously displace the location of the receiver and/or transmitter"

Of course a radio direction finder would get spoofed by multipath. GPS are for a rather different function and their computations are based on time signals and not literal directionality. Totally different tech than rdf.

But to return to the point, neither snow, even under the reduced visibility of a whiteout (?) nor simply heavy tree cover, render GPS unusable. And that's what I originally disputed and still do. And a reference that bluntly states a direct view of the sky and the transmitting satellites  is mandatory is out of date with even 7 years old tech.

AlmostThere :) that's what designated my 15 year old 12XL to paperweight status a long time ago. Couldn't beat my Thommens for weight or utility then or now.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 1:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I added a GPS, ( "Graphite Professional Stock") to my AK- 47 weaponry arsenal, after I was attacked by 2 starving hikers in the Beartooths, a few years ago, that were almost 2 miles from where they thought they were, completely lost, trying to follow a generic FS map, (not even a Topo) after their satellite positioning device's batteries failed and left them completely lost, day's away from a TH without any food to get out.

Yes, satellite postioning systems are the end all !!

Just like THIS, THIS , THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS,


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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 7:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

None of those "this" examples were a fault or defect of the GPS units but the stupidity of the users.

QUOTE
Of course a radio direction finder would get spoofed by multipath. GPS are for a rather different function and their computations are based on time signals and not literal directionality. Totally different tech than rdf.

Same basic tech and yes, GPS positions are based on time differential. What happens when a signal takes a longer path than a straight line because of reflection? The GPS will place itself back along that line at a distance equal to the extra distance traveled.

An extreme example (because the reflection wouldn't be that drastic) but use a 3/4/5 right triangle as an example. A straight line is 5 units. The "bounce" is 3+4 or 7. The GPS will place you 2 units, or 40%, away along either 3 or 4.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 7:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(swimswithtrout @ May 24 2013, 1:54 am)
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I added a GPS, ( "Graphite Professional Stock") to my AK- 47 weaponry arsenal, after I was attacked by 2 starving hikers in the Beartooths, a few years ago, that were almost 2 miles from where they thought they were, completely lost, trying to follow a generic FS map, (not even a Topo) after their satellite positioning device's batteries failed and left them completely lost, day's away from a TH without any food to get out.

Yes, satellite postioning systems are the end all !!

Just like THIS, THIS , THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS,

Lol, hard to believe the one story about the people driving right into the ocean...

Sure, I will always keep map and compass my primary form of nav. I'd just like to try modern tech and see if it helps any. I would never rely on it.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 23 2013, 1:07 pm)
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I still do not carry a GPS when hiking, but I do when kayaking now.  I have discovered that mangrove islands all pretty much look the same from water level, and my maps do not help much when trying to decide if that inlet is which one of many shown on the chart.  I use it to determine my exact location, so I can properly chart my next move.  

Quoted for truth.  In a kayak is where a GPS really rocks, its a royal pain to map and compass navigate a shoreline.

I use the GPS to pick a heading and the bow compass to follow it.

I also use it when backpacking and hunting, but usually just to mark the car.  When I am going off trail I tend to just wander and find places that meet my fancy.  I dont care if I get "lost" on the way in, just so long as I can make it back out when I'm supposed to :D
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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 12:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 24 2013, 4:00 am)
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None of those "this" examples were a fault or defect of the GPS units but the stupidity of the users.

QUOTE
Of course a radio direction finder would get spoofed by multipath. GPS are for a rather different function and their computations are based on time signals and not literal directionality. Totally different tech than rdf.

Same basic tech and yes, GPS positions are based on time differential. What happens when a signal takes a longer path than a straight line because of reflection? The GPS will place itself back along that line at a distance equal to the extra distance traveled.

An extreme example (because the reflection wouldn't be that drastic) but use a 3/4/5 right triangle as an example. A straight line is 5 units. The "bounce" is 3+4 or 7. The GPS will place you 2 units, or 40%, away along either 3 or 4.

And in the new generatioins of gps units, dating back to the 60Csx SiRF chipset era they engineered a solution for that and don't have the simplistic algorithms and hardware designs of the older units: hence the supoerior performance under reflected signal path conditions.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is they use the multiple satellites transmissions to determine the overall signal environment through a clever signal analysis computation.

No doubt there'll be an actual engineering explanation out there somewhere that compares the old, dumb, gps chipsets and the SiRfStarIII, MTK and STM series newer designs in how they utilize their massively parallel correlators to compensate for difficult receiving environments.


As to incidents involving gps units I'd agree, many are the result of assumptions users make that a backcountry gps will function like a car roadmap gps, or that somehow an electronic device means common sense (moving aside a closed gate to get to a snowed in unplowed mountain road as in one tragic example, that one, IIRC, trigerred some REI increased gps awreness outreach as the person who died trying to walk out was an employee??) needn't be utilized.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 24 2013, 1:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I use a GPS as my stay-out-jail card in the areas I hike in. There is a real mix of Federal, State Trust, and private when I am out in the basins of NE Wyoming.

I work for a non-profit wilderness advocacy organization in area where the word "wilderness" is used as an expletive and I have a very high public exposure. The last thing I need is to show up in court with a misdemeanor trespass.

I use a very funky old Garmin Etrex, the $100 one, and research my surface land status now that it is available across Wyoming on-line. I than mark up my paper maps before setting out to new areas. I use the GPS to validate my paper map navigation. Setting in waypoint for the vehicle to find it in the dark or worse is by itself is priceless in a sometimes featureless steppe.


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