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Topic: Thinkin' 'bout a 'yak< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 6:54 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Been thinking about getting a cheap rotomolded kayak.  Heavy but utilitarian.  Would do some fishing from it sometimes.  My vague plan was to buy something cheap (possibly used from Craigslist), and if I stick with it then sell it and upgrade in a year or two when I have a better idea of what I want/like.

But in talking with a couple of local places yesterday I'm now leaning more toward a lighter but more expensive composite yak.  EMS will give me 15% off the entire bundle - yak, paddle, vest.

Suggestions?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 7:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd probably go the cheep route but that's just me.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 8:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Need more info.

Height:

Weight:

Paddling experience:

Lakes, rivers, or ocean?

Just for fishing?

Camping trips?

How often will you be kayaking?

What season?

Maximum budget

Location (so we can check local Craigslist and make a recommendation)
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

5'10

230

Virtually nil.

Lakes, rivers, Chesapeake Bay.  I live on a tidal pond which connects to the bay.

No.

Maybe, if car camping, but it would be infrequent.  Maybe 0-2 times per year.

Dunno.

3 seasons

I plan to to stay under a grand.  I can afford pretty much anything I can talk myself into, but don't want to throw money down the drain.

Baltimore/Annapolis/DC.

I've been ogling this one, although a search yields a substantial number of broken seats, which I suppose can be fixed or replaced, possibly by a third party.  It's discontinued and I can't find much on it at Perception's web site.

I'm thinking 12-14 feet, 1-2 bulkheads.

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/3855294687.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 7:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Based on your replies, here's what I recommend:

14' x 24" transitional kayak. This will allow you to pick up basic skills and it will be suitable for many bodies of water.

Large cockpit, about 17" x 35". (That's small for recreational but large for transitional.)

2 bulkheads: absolute necessity for safety.

The Perception Sundance you're looking at is ridiculously wide. Cross that off your list.

Check this Wilderness Systems Tsunami 140: http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/3874804787.html Dang heavy though.

Also:
http://cnj.craigslist.org/sgd/3869746665.html

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/for/3843650041.html  Only good for a beginner in calm water, but it is underpriced if in good condition and can be resold for a profit. Should sell for around $1200.

My best recommendation for an excellent do-all kayak is the Delta 12.10.
http://www.frontenac-outfitters.com/kayaks/one_boat.cfm?ID=645
Watch the video and you will want it. Excellent beginner-intermediate kayak that is also seaworthy and has enough room for camping gear. Excellent stability in all conditions. Fast for its short length. Weighs just 43 lbs. REI sells it---should be a sale coming up in mid July. The reviews are almost unanimously positive. Rarely found used.

Does EMS want to sell you a Hurricane? The Delta 12.10 is a much better kayak. It's also much better than the Tsunami listed above. If you can afford $1500, there is no better beginner-intermediate kayak than the Delta 12.10.

There is a fairly long learning curve to understanding kayak materials and designs. I don't recommend that you spend more than $1500 at this point, until you know your commitment to the sport and where you want to go next with it. Then you can upgrade.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 8:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think you should check out paddling.net. for good kayaking advice.
Lots of great paddlers over there.......including me.
:;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 10:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Get a kayak with a rudder. With the windy conditions you will encounter, a rudder will help you control the kayak. Also the longer the kayak, the faster it will be. One that is 22-23 inches across will be easier to edge, making it more nimble.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 16 2013, 11:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I prefer skegs.   :cool:

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 6:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Tramper - what's wrong with 29"?  (mind out of gutter)  I understand more drag, but what else?  Those look like some good suggestions.  Not sure if EMS had the 12.10.  Thanks.  And for the record I'm looking at it as recreation and fun, not sport.  No plans to compete in any way.

Toes, I've been there and a few other places.  Got a little overwhelmed with the number of sites and suggestions to previous posters with similar questions.

Paula & Toes - I'm leaning toward neither a rudder nor a skeg, but open to reasons to get one.

Learning about chine, etc....
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 8:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

FWIW, I bought my first kayak last summer and basically went through what you're going through now, though I knew I wanted to do some river camping in mine.  After renting from the typical outfitters who have the one-size-fits-all kayaks, it was an amazing revelation to paddle one that fit *me*.   Buying a kayak is like a buying a really expensive backpack; something you'd never recommend doing without trying it on (after measuring your torso, waist, volume and weight of your gear...)

If you have a paddle shop nearby, I highly recommend trying to hit one of their demo days or making an appointment to try a bunch of boats.  I took an inexpensive beginners class at one nearby and, while I didn't learn much about paddling that I didn't already know, I got to try a bunch of different kayaks -- different lengths, widths, volumes, weights -- and even different paddles and PDF's and found it really worth my while.  Even if I wasn't looking at the exact same boat/model, I had a much better feel for what the spec's meant and what I was looking for.

You also don't want to disregard the out-of-water part; how it feels to handle a 40lb boat vs a 50lb boat in getting it on/off your car and in/out of the water.  Maybe not a big issue for a big guy but it was a major consideration for me.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

To muddle the waters even more............
You might consider building a kayak, from a kit perhaps.
http://www.pygmyboats.com/

For fishing I've found sit-on-tops the best.  The very best sit-on-tops for fishing I've found are Hobies but....KaChing!  You peddle or paddle those so you can troll more easily.  They're heavy though.

The best advice you've gotten so far is to paddle as many as you can before you buy.  Sorry I didn't think of it first.
:D


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Muddle even more... Get a canoe.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eggs @ Jun. 17 2013, 11:47 am)
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Muddle even more... Get a canoe.

I also prefer solo canoes over kayaks these days, but I wonder if it might get kind of windy on the Chesapeake for a canoe.  But canoes are, in general, lighter, more fun to paddle (IMHO), better to fish out of, and more comfortable over long stretches (upright seated position rather than legs stretched out in front is easier on the back).  I have a Wenonah Vagabond that is a great all around boat.  As has been recommended, definitely paddle everything you can get your hands on, and spend some time on paddling.net.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 17 2013, 10:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(reubenstump @ Jun. 17 2013, 6:04 am)
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Tramper - what's wrong with 29"? I understand more drag, but what else?  

Even a half an inch makes a noticeable difference in the width of a kayak. Here's what different widths might feel like to a beginner:

29": A barge. Very, very slow. Very difficult to turn.  

26": Still slow.

25": Still slow. Honest!

24" Ideal beginner width. Faster, turns better. Should be stable if it has a shallow V hull. Anyone can learn to paddle this width.

23" Probably okay for a beginner, but will feel tippy at first. Hull must be shallow V. The Eddyline Merlin XT mentioned above is 23" wide, but it has a DEEP V hull which makes it unstable for a beginner---a wave coming from the side will tip you right over. Still a great boat in calm water though and maybe you can learn to paddle it. The cockpit is right for your weight.

22" Definitely tippy for a beginner
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 9:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TrailTramper @ Jun. 17 2013, 10:59 pm)
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(reubenstump @ Jun. 17 2013, 6:04 am)
QUOTE
Tramper - what's wrong with 29"? I understand more drag, but what else?  

Even a half an inch makes a noticeable difference in the width of a kayak. Here's what different widths might feel like to a beginner:

29": A barge. Very, very slow. Very difficult to turn.  

26": Still slow.

25": Still slow. Honest!

24" Ideal beginner width. Faster, turns better. Should be stable if it has a shallow V hull. Anyone can learn to paddle this width.

23" Probably okay for a beginner, but will feel tippy at first. Hull must be shallow V. The Eddyline Merlin XT mentioned above is 23" wide, but it has a DEEP V hull which makes it unstable for a beginner---a wave coming from the side will tip you right over. Still a great boat in calm water though and maybe you can learn to paddle it. The cockpit is right for your weight.

22" Definitely tippy for a beginner

A lot of truth in this, but I will add any boat that feels tippy for the first 15 minutes, wont 15 minutes later  :)


A real deal out there is at most gander mountain/Dicks sporting goods and its the perception conduit 13.

It used to be the dagger catalyst 13, its a good solid 13 foot dual bulkhead boat with reasonable storage, for a guy topping out around 260lbs or so.

Big enough for some open water, without being too big for easy car topping and maneuverability

One will probably end up in my collection next year to compliment the 17 foot sea 'yak.

For the record the guys who keep saying canoe, are the same type of guys who think station wagons make the greatest sports cars.  :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 9:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(booyah @ Jun. 18 2013, 9:26 am)
QUOTE
For the record the guys who keep saying canoe, are the same type of guys who think station wagons make the greatest sports cars.  :D

We its never a race so a station wagon as you refer to them are a pretty versatile vehicle.

I can do open water lakes, small streams, class two rivers, or paddle to Assateague Bay down to Pop Bay for an overnighter. all in a nice Old Town Penobscot 15" solo canoe.

Bring all the beer food and lounge chairs I want. It's like car camping without the car.

Here is a photo of the kitchen setup I can bring



I also made custom spray skirts for my boat and my buddies boat which can be seen here

http://erickpanger.com/mullicaoct2011.html

I've never paddled a Yak so can't say which is better. But for me the SUV of boats is far more versatile :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 1:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You need to fit your boat to your primary paddling trip. If its fishing, my suggestion would be to talk to kayak anglers who live in your area (http://chesapeakebaykayakanglers.com/). They are going to be the best source of what works in your area.

Second I would check with local paddling shops. They often have sessions on the weekends where you can try a number of kayaks, and often sell their rental boats.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 3:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have two that sound like what your looking for.
Dager Axis 10.5 and a Wilderness Tarpon 10. Both are great boats for doing creeks and rivers. the Dager is faster but the Tarpon is easer to get in and out of if you fall out.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 18 2013, 10:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eggs @ Jun. 18 2013, 9:56 am)
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(booyah @ Jun. 18 2013, 9:26 am)
QUOTE
For the record the guys who keep saying canoe, are the same type of guys who think station wagons make the greatest sports cars.  :D

We its never a race so a station wagon as you refer to them are a pretty versatile vehicle.

I can do open water lakes, small streams, class two rivers, or paddle to Assateague Bay down to Pop Bay for an overnighter. all in a nice Old Town Penobscot 15" solo canoe.

Bring all the beer food and lounge chairs I want. It's like car camping without the car.

Here is a photo of the kitchen setup I can bring



I also made custom spray skirts for my boat and my buddies boat which can be seen here

http://erickpanger.com/mullicaoct2011.html

I've never paddled a Yak so can't say which is better. But for me the SUV of boats is far more versatile :)

Sorry Eggs,
Just giving you canoe guys a hard time  :)

I started as a canoe guy, helped my dad build a few 15-17 foot stitch and glue boats, as well as went on several trips in his various boats.

In my late 20s, I got a recreational kayak as a fishing boat, and I never looked back

Personally I have never had the canoe that I would feel comfortable several miles out in open water even when its calm, but my Perception Eclipse 17 airlite, no issues

This is outside luddington MI on Lake Michigan on a nice calm evening




And heres a shot of the SS Badger car ferry running over to Wisconsin.  These shots were taken about 8-10 miles out


For what its worth, that boat really is a barge, it will carry me, plus 200 pounds of gear and still be under its rating.  It has nearly 9000 cubic inches of storage below decks.

I bought it with the intent of kayaking around Isle Royal (about 100 miles around, way out in Lake Superior) over two weeks, but still havent done that trip.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 4:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No need to apologize all in fun.

I'm pretty sure I would not want to be miles out in open water in a canoe.  And the great Lakes can be cold as hell no place to roll and not be able to right yourself.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 1:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, I'm also thinking about a kayak.  Any thoughts on this:
http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/spo/3797753374.html

We'd want it for flat water only, with two adults or one adult & a little kid or two.  Casual day trips and maybe a camping trip with backpacking gear now and then.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 1:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You actually want a packraft. :D



Well okay, based on your description... no you don't.  But I thought I'd toss it out there anyway. :p


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

GBH, I'd love to have the time and knowledge to make good use of one.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 7:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bummer, I just sold mine.
They're great but not very fast..........unless you're going down a fast river.


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(reubenstump @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:42 pm)
QUOTE
GBH, I'd love to have the time and knowledge to make good use of one.

Come to Boulder sometime.  I have two.  We could run the creek and I could show some pointers on a bit of tame class 1-3 whitewater.  Just tossin' that out there.


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(GoBlueHiker @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:26 pm)
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(reubenstump @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:42 pm)
QUOTE
GBH, I'd love to have the time and knowledge to make good use of one.

Come to Boulder sometime.  I have two.  We could run the creek and I could show some pointers on a bit of tame class 1-3 whitewater.

OK, I think I've got my next 3 trips planned.  Patagonia, Mongolia, and GBH's creek.

Life took a quick downturn then headed back up, so the creek may be first.

Variety is the spice...  :)
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(reubenstump @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:33 pm)
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Variety is the spice...  :)

Great!  Come a little further west and try out our kayaks.  We have ten currently, plastic, composite, lots of wood s&g and strippers (no, not that kind) and a canoe in the works.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 19 2013, 7:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think we're planning quite the paddling tour for reuben here.  Kayaks I'm short on, but toes has ya covered. :)

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(toesnorth @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:39 pm)
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(reubenstump @ Jun. 19 2013, 7:33 pm)
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Variety is the spice...  :)

Great!  Come a little further west and try out our kayaks.  We have ten currently, plastic, composite, lots of wood s&g and strippers (no, not that kind) and a canoe in the works.

Well, thank goodness they're not s&m strippers.  Those could be rough waters indeed.
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(ponderosa @ Jun. 19 2013, 1:48 pm)
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OK, I'm also thinking about a kayak.  Any thoughts on this:
http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/spo/3797753374.html

We'd want it for flat water only, with two adults or one adult & a little kid or two.  Casual day trips and maybe a camping trip with backpacking gear now and then.

Perfect starter boat for that. :)

Make/buy a sprayskirt, though...tandem sit-in boats don't do so well without them.
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