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Topic: Cooling water after boiling? Making Coffee also.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:25 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

2 questions here.

First, cooling water after boiling for purifying. How many of you boil water? What do you do to cool the water back down?

This past weekend our process was to filter with a pump then boil to kill off anything else. The hard part was trying to get the water to cool back down. I was hesitant to put the water back in a nalgene after a hard boil so I tried to cool the water some before it went in by using a pan and a second (smaller) pot as transfer/cooling containers. This didn't work too well, other than keeping the nalgenes from getting piping hot/soft. We ended up letting the bottles sit in the creek for about 15-20 minutes before we started back on the trial and this helped, but too long of a process.

I was thinking some kind of drip tube that would let a small amount of water through, then maybe run the tube through the creek again before it hit the second container so the heat would dissipate. The type of tubing I'm thinking of is a long piece of model engine fuel line (silicon-like tubing with a lot of different sizes, typically around 1/8" OD with 1/32-1/16" ID).

On the reverse topic, making coffee. I was thinking maybe the same kind of system with the tube to dribble water over a filter in a funnel-like device that sits over top a cup, like a regular coffee maker just the crude parts that make it work. I know there are a lot of fancy commercial options (one of my hiking buddies has a jetboil with a french press - that is pretty slick), but I'd like to home brew something. My experiment with a few scoops of coffee wrapped up in a filter and stapled shut on a string (giant tea bag) worked somewhat this weekend, but I don't know how efficient it was.

Thoughts?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 14 2013, 11:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why waste all that fuel for absolutely no purpose is my thinking.

The filter (which one?), unless it actually isn't working, filters out the disease causing micro-organisms. Boiling just makes hot water after that.

When I do have to cool hot water is in the winter when I'm melting snow for water: so then its a simple matter to bury the pan/bottles in a snow bank.

For coffee I use a Melitta filter cone and a paper filter.
http://www.acehardware.com/product....2781463

Easy as at home.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 12:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you are going to boil it, might as well just run it through your bandana to get the chunks out. Boiling it will kill everything else.

I say, just filter it and be happy.  Unless you are drawing your water downstream from a chemical plant, or a feed lot, filtering should be just fine.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 12:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree with HSF.  Also, even after it's cooled, recently boiled water has an unpalatable flat taste.  I boiled for a day and a half on a trip when my filter died, and the other thing I learned is that unless the air is cold or you have a cold stream nearby, water takes forever to cool.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 12:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Note if you're going to boil make sure you do it for long enough at higher elevations.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthy....nt.html

"Boiling can be used as a pathogen reduction method that should kill all pathogens. Water should be brought to a rolling boil for 1 minute. At altitudes greater than 6,562 feet (greater than 2000 meters), you should boil water for 3 minutes."

But as noted by the CDC for other than viruses (which are too small for liters to catch) filtering alone is sufficent.

If I were concerned about viruses I'd probably use the MIOX system as its far simpler and much, much lighter.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 12:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 12:44 am)
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If I were concerned about viruses I'd probably use the MIOX system as its far simpler and much, much lighter.

Are those still available?  They don't show up on the MSR web site any more.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 12:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Jul. 14 2013, 9:55 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 12:44 am)
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If I were concerned about viruses I'd probably use the MIOX system as its far simpler and much, much lighter.

Are those still available?  They don't show up on the MSR web site any more.

I was just reminded of them because the CDC notes they're effective against viruses.

ETA: MSR may have spun them off?

http://www.miox.com/miox-solutions/MSR-MIOX-Purifier-Pen.aspx

So Aquatabs then: "Effective: US EPA approved; effective against viruses, bacteria and Giardia cysts. (*Aquatabs® are not effective against Cryptosporidium.)"
http://cascadedesigns.com/msr....product
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 1:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 12:57 am)
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I think they were the technology providers, but not manufacturers, so they don't actually sell them.  Amazon shows a few at high prices from resellers.  It puzzles me.  I was checking this out a few months ago when I noticed places that previously carried Miox pens stopped doing so.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 6:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the info. I will have to check with my buddy what kind of filter we used. It seems to me it was red and black or red and dark gray in color, and had a flatter square pick up device that he strapped a small rock to so it would sink in the stream, if that means anything. I'll ask and see what he says.

In past years with other groups we've used some drops that I believe were called "viral stop" or something to that affect. After filtering we would let the drops sit in the water for several minutes before consuming.

As to boil times - I knew the water had to boil for a bit so once it was really boiling I let it run for 5 minutes, total time was over 10 minutes because it took a bit to get going. As for fuel usage - not a big concern on this trip. I had a Wisperlite stove with MSR's smallest fuel bottle. It wasn't all the way full (maybe 2/3) and I came home with about 1/4 of it left - 2 day trip and yesterday we spent all day in camp before hiking back. If I was out longer and I was trying to be conservative, then yes, I would probably find an alternate method.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 1:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sounds like an MSR HyperFlow. That's a newish design using hollow fiber cartridge filtration (the square thing is a prefilter to keep the big crud from clogging the pores designed to screen out the small disease micro-organisms) where the hollow fibers give the thing a huge filter area for it's volume, thus having better flow through volume (squeezing water through a lot more small holes wall at once).

http://cascadedesigns.com/en....product

Bottom line is with a performing filter, it's a waste of time.... much like adding sanitizing drops and filtering: BOTH do the same thing (well at least if you'd waited the required 30 minutes after adding the drops...  otherwise you've just added more chemicals for you to eat).
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 1:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 1:42 pm)
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Sounds like an MSR HyperFlow.

If so, the problem might have been either that it has been backflushed enough, or was in a vapor lock condition.  The latter seems to be the most common reason people think a filter has failed.  I'm not sure what procedure is for clearing the air on that filter.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 2:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Jul. 15 2013, 10:54 am)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 1:42 pm)
QUOTE
Sounds like an MSR HyperFlow.

If so, the problem might have been either that it has been backflushed enough, or was in a vapor lock condition.  The latter seems to be the most common reason people think a filter has failed.  I'm not sure what procedure is for clearing the air on that filter.

I don't think the OP thought the filter had failed: there's mention later of doing the same sort of double sanitizing using chemicals.

"In past years with other groups we've used some drops that I believe were called "viral stop" or something to that affect. After filtering we would let the drops sit in the water for several minutes before consuming."

More of a "if a little is good, more is better" approach.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 3:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 15 2013, 2:54 pm)
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I don't think the OP thought the filter had failed: there's mention later of doing the same sort of double sanitizing using chemicals.

Oops, I'm losing track.  I've seen a couple cases of filter problems lately, and I get them mixed up.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 15 2013, 9:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No filter problems on our trek, the filter has been lightly used. If I have my numbers right this was his second trip with it.

My buddy tells me it is a MSR Hyper Flow 99, so HSF was right.

I don't recall how many drops of viral stop we used in the past, another guy I hike with always did it. He had the filter (not the hyperlite, a different one) and viral stop. I know it wasn't very many drops, maybe a couple per nalgene or something to that affect.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 16 2013, 5:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The only time I boil is in winter and then I don't want it to cool. You don't need to worry about the Nalgenes taking the heat. I pour the boiling water right in them and then stick the bottles in insulating covers, then they go in my sleeping bag for the night.

But I agree, there is no reason for you to be boiling after filtering. Just a giant waste of time and fuel to me. Maybe the peace of mind is worth it for you though.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 16 2013, 9:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I boil unfiltered water for breakfast, but it's going straight into my oatmeal and coffee so it doesn't need to cool. Other than that I trust my filter to do its job.

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