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Topic: Down Puffy advice< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
mattofcarlisle Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 3:38 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I had always carried either a 200 wt marmot fleece or 16 oz synthetic puffy in spring and fall.  I recently found a "Billabong" 550 fill hooded puffy at the local Ross for $32.  The thing is crazy warm.  The tags and few online resources I found said the shell was waterproof nylon.  On my scale at home, it weighed 26 oz. Would I be nuts to try to carry this on a 12 mile trip the beginning of November?  I've been trying like mad to frugally drop the weight I carry (my wife has dropped my gear budget to near nothing).  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
Matt
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 4:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Run some water over it at home.  See if it's as waterproof as advertised.

If it is, sure, bring it.  Just know that if it's "crazy warm" and you plan to hike in it, sweat can become an issue.  You can mitigate that, of course, but keep it in mind.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 5:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks, goblue.  I dumped about 4 oz is water on one of the sleeves near a seam last night - it beaded and ran off.  I doubt if I would hike in it. I was thinking of pairing it with my 45 degree bag.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 5:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If, by your assessment of it at home, it seems warm enough, I wouldn't hesitate to try it out, especially on a short trip.  I do that with new gear all the time.  You never really know how well it'll work until you're out there, but there's only one way to find out.

Use your good judgement of course, but I kinda figure you've got that covered.

For transparency, I haven't seen or used one of those jackets, so I can't say for sure.  But maybe I should head over to Ross and check one out. :p


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 9:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

$32.00?  Be good for knocking around town on a cold day if nothing else.  Hard to go wrong for $32.00

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2013, 9:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Oct. 03 2013, 8:21 pm)
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$32.00?  Be good for knocking around town on a cold day if nothing else.  Hard to go wrong for $32.00

Agree. I'm not sure I really consider waterproof an advantage in a down puffy, though. To me, that just means I'm much more likely to sweat in it.

Although, I pretty-much never wear my down jacket while actually hiking, so I guess it's not much of an issue if its job is strictly to keep you warm in camp.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 9:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the advice.  I was thinking the same thing.  I rarely wear my puffy long after breaking camp & hitting the trail.  In a perfect world, it would have been more like 20 ounces.  I was stoked that it has a hood.  
Do any of you guys wear a puffy for warmth at night?  I had always stuffed mine in a sack for a pillow.  It's still hitting 80 here in S Central PA.  I need a few cool/cold nights to try it out in the backyard before I take it on the trail.

Aside from a Dunhams & a Dick's Sporting Goods, there are no outdoor type stores nearby.  All my bpacking purchases have either been at Ross or TJ Maxx the past few years.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wear my Golite Cumulous puffy down sweater under my sleeping quilt quite often
here in the Rockies. This puffy only weighs 16 oz  and packs cantaloupe-size, so I would be carrying it anyway for unexpected cold snaps, which happen frequently above 10,000 ft.

This allows me to carry a much lighter sleeping bag...my 20* quilt only weighs 22 oz., and this combination has kept me toasty down to 10*.

What a luxury for hanging around camp at night, or getting up to start breakfast on a chilly morning. With my puffy, I'm always warm in camp, and that's priceless to me...
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 3:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(mattofcarlisle @ Oct. 03 2013, 2:38 pm)
QUOTE
I had always carried either a 200 wt marmot fleece or 16 oz synthetic puffy in spring and fall....I've been trying like mad to frugally drop the weight I carry (my wife has dropped my gear budget to near nothing).  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
Matt

I think that for a 12 mile trip, you can get away with carrying some extras! Just curious, since you're wanting to drop weight, but is your 16oz synthetic puffy not warm enough, or do you just want to try the new jacket?

I'm going to start implementing a down jacket into my sleep system when it gets below freezing, and see how much use I can get out combining one with a 40F bag. Probably switch to a quilt some day, but that might be years away, since there's really nothing wrong with my sleeping bags. Meanwhile, if it means being able to carry the bag that's a pound lighter a lot of the time...great!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the input. My 16 oz synthetic puffy is a cheap one from Old Navy.  I don't trust the thing down past 40. I'll have to see what the weathers like in a few weeks and go from there.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 9:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wear a down jacket in combo with my +40 sleeping bag in temps down to 0.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 9:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Oct. 06 2013, 9:02 pm)
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I wear a down jacket in combo with my +40 sleeping bag in temps down to 0.

Yes, but you seem to be an anomaly.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 9:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(toesnorth @ Oct. 06 2013, 8:15 pm)
QUOTE

(Tigger @ Oct. 06 2013, 9:02 pm)
QUOTE
I wear a down jacket in combo with my +40 sleeping bag in temps down to 0.

Yes, but you seem to be an anomaly.

...Or he's menopausal.
...Or his blood is antifreeze and he makes a sound like ice-bound tree limbs cracking in the dead of winter when he walks.

Tigger, I'd really like to see a more complete description of your setup and experiences with your 40 degree bag and clothing approach. More detail. You keep mentioning it, so you've piqued my interest. If you've already posted it somewhere here, where?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 12:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why are you all jumping on Tigger? From my experience of sleeping comfortably in a light sleeping system during extremely cold nights (while wearing a puffy down jacket,) I believe his claim...

Tigger didn't invent this concept...it's been around UL websites for decades.

Gabby, I loved your line, "Or his blood is antifreeze and he makes a sound like ice-bound tree limbs cracking in the dead of winter when he walks."

You have an amazing talent...
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 2:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Golite +40 Featherlite bag
Lands End Down jacket (with hood)
Usually my Smartwool thermal shirt
Two pair of cheap fleece pants (hopefully to be replaced soon with a pair of down pants)
Polypro thermals or mid weight Patagonia Thermals
Sierra Designs Down booties
Expedition weight Smartwool socks

I started doing it because I figure...If I have to haul them in winter to stay warm around camp, why not wear them to bed?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 2:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the quick reply, Tigger. I suspect that much of the positive result you get from your "technique" is expertise, however, rather than just the gear. That's usually, IME, the case.

I've tried taking my Marmot Hydrogen about 11 degrees below its 30 degree rating, but I can't say that I was "comfortable". I slept, but fitfully. In that particular case, I was wearing fleece pants, Smartwool socks with liners and down booties over, a fleece top and a synthetic jacket over that, and was wearing a fleece balaclava. There was a stiff wind from the north that wasn't mitigated by my tent (Tarptent Squall - old one) a great deal, and I was probably not as physically prepared as I should have been, meaning that my metabolism might not have been as high as it could have been, and I had not taken the step of adding extra activity or food before bedtime. I didn't use any supplementary heating source, like a foot warmer (hot water bottle) or hand warmer or anything else. There is, I believe more to this than just the gear, but much of that may be "incidental" or merely "urban wisdom".

highpeakdrifter:
"Tigger didn't invent this concept...it's been around UL websites for decades."

I think most of us know that the concept is not new, and more or less accepted practice. I know that I'd never go out into even a mild late spring or early fall night without the extra insurance of a light jacket tucked in beside me in my bag or under my quilt. Too many times the temps have unexpectedly dipped 10, 15 or even 20 extra degrees below what I had expected. When that happens, you need something that'll let you get warmer quick and go back to sleep. As a precaution, I feel it's indispensable, though the marketing guys don't often mention it as part of their "sleeping system that will conquer nature". As if. One starts to believe they haven't ever met the lady. She can be somewhat perverse at times. Flexibility in accommodating that perversity is recommended.

However, to return to my response: Tigger seems to have taken the idea to an entirely different place than most others I know of. I know that I, for one, would need the security of that "second bag" as insurance to take a 40 degree bag out in raw cold as my sleep system, even with extra clothing. But, as practice, I think I need to give it a few more trials.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 5:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Oct. 07 2013, 1:53 am)
QUOTE
I've tried taking my Marmot Hydrogen about 11 degrees below its 30 degree rating, but I can't say that I was "comfortable". I slept, but fitfully. In that particular case, I was wearing fleece pants, Smartwool socks with liners and down booties over, a fleece top and a synthetic jacket over that, and was wearing a fleece balaclava.

I think the shelter does have something to do with it(Tigger, don't you use a shelter+bivy?) not to mention how warm you sleep, and the factors that affect that.
With my ID bivy, I can comfortably take my 40F(EN 42.6, I think) Marmot Arete to around freezing wearing only boxer briefs, and into the 20s with light to midweight baselayers. Sleeping in the open, or using a TT Notch, it's a different story, and puts me back up to about the EN rating sans baselayers.
Got stuck in the teens once with the bivy, 40F bag, and short Z-Lite, and while I did get some sleep, it was not a pleasant experience. I think with a full-length insulated pad, down jacket, and a warm bottom layer it might have been ok, though. Should be interesting to experiment with...
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I do have a OR Advanced Bivy. It allows me to push my system below 0 if needed and I mainly use it just to keep spindrift off. It is also my emergency shelter. I tend to look for storms on purpose so the need for backup shelter has become a reality for me. I would be concerned if I didn't have any reserves.

I am completely comfortable down to 0 sleeping on top of my bivy in my floorless shelter. I use a full length Z-Rest, 3/4 Prolite Plus under my torso along with my pack under my legs/feet.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I pack a super warm sleeping bag, and sleep in the undies. I know it's not for everyone, but I feel like it's much more comfortable. And for me, sleeping well is much worth the extra weight (what, a pound to have a 15 vs 40 degree bag?).
I know many who layer up to sleep, but I don't know many who sleep as well as I do.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Oct. 07 2013, 2:08 am)
QUOTE
Golite +40 Featherlite bag
Lands End Down jacket (with hood)
Usually my Smartwool thermal shirt
Two pair of cheap fleece pants (hopefully to be replaced soon with a pair of down pants)
Polypro thermals or mid weight Patagonia Thermals
Sierra Designs Down booties
Expedition weight Smartwool socks

I started doing it because I figure...If I have to haul them in winter to stay warm around camp, why not wear them to bed?

Get the down pants.  You won't regret it.  

I have down jacket, pants socks and scarf and wear them inside my WM HighLite bag.  It's a solid combination.  When it get's colder i just switch out the bag for somwthing a little warmer like my REI Sub Kilo or my WM Puma.  I'm good from 50F down to -40F.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(treelinebackpacker @ Oct. 07 2013, 8:47 am)
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I pack a super warm sleeping bag, and sleep in the undies. I know it's not for everyone, but I feel like it's much more comfortable. And for me, sleeping well is much worth the extra weight (what, a pound to have a 15 vs 40 degree bag?).
I know many who layer up to sleep, but I don't know many who sleep as well as I do.

My +40 bag weighs 1 lb, 6oz. I sleep great.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Plus, when you get up for that 3 AM visit to the tree, you're already dressed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Oct. 07 2013, 10:45 am)
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Plus, when you get up for that 3 AM visit to the tree, you're already dressed.

I coated the bottom of my SD Booties with a thin coat of silicone specifically for that task...A quick brush off the bottom of the booties and I'm back in bed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Oct. 07 2013, 1:48 pm)
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(TDale @ Oct. 07 2013, 10:45 am)
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Plus, when you get up for that 3 AM visit to the tree, you're already dressed.

I coated the bottom of my SD Booties with a thin coat of silicone specifically for that task...A quick brush off the bottom of the booties and I'm back in bed.

I've got the ones with soles!  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(treelinebackpacker @ Oct. 07 2013, 10:47 am)
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(what, a pound to have a 15 vs 40 degree bag?).
I know many who layer up to sleep, but I don't know many who sleep as well as I do.

Coincidentally, my Arete is exactly a pound lighter than my 15F(10F EN rated) Pinnacle.
Hopefully, layering vs the heavier bag will work well for me, specifically, because I get hot and sweat from the waist down in the Pinnacle. Sometimes I need more than the Arete, but the warmest I've even been able to zip the Pinnacle all the way up was 22F.
I've used it in the mid to upper teens, but the bag was really bought for trips out West, and is simply overkill for me here in the South.
Thinking my 12oz down hoody and the 24oz Arete might strike a good balance for me, and be more comfortable than the Pinnacle while having less weight and bulk.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 10:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Excellent advice.  Depending on the temps, I may try my 200 at pants with the down coat.  The down booties sound like the ticket. Last spring, we had a night that hit 24 - the only thing cold on me were my feet.  I also might place the 45 degree bag in my bivy.  Thanks.
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