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Topic: Tarptent Moment vs. "proper" tent< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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haganaga Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:14 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm sure this has kind of been beaten to death but I'm looking for a little help

Background:
I've been to the Boundary Waters 4 times and have that down pat.  Looking to get more into backpacking.  My only backpacking experience is a week in Yosemite which was amazing.  However, I need a lighter shelter.  I am currently using a TNF Tadpole which is way too heavy (over 6lbs).  Great for the Boundary Waters, but a pain to carry on your back all day.  

Preferences: Lightweight, freestanding preferable, reasonably durable

Types of trips it'll be used on: Similar to my Yosemite trip, I won't be taking any trips lasting more than a week, probably 10-12 miles/day max and I can only get in one trip a year.  However, I plan to take more BPing trips vs. canoe trips because, as my wife says, "You aren't getting any younger (I'm 38)so it's probably best to get as many hiking trips in as you can while you're still in decent shape.  Save the canoe trips for when you're older and looking for more 'chill' type trips."

From everything I've been reading, the Moment is the best choice given the space, ease of set-up, lightweight and potential for freestanding with optional cross pole.  I guess what I'm wondering, is there any downside I'm missing if I go with the Moment?  Seems like it's durable enough to withstand pretty significant weather and I'm only looking for a 3-season solution as I'll continue to use the Tadpole for winter camping.

So unless someone can talk me out of a Moment, I'm likely to be going in that direction.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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SW Mtn backpacker Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I replaced a Big Anges Seedhouse 1 SL and then a FlyCreek 1 UL with the old style Moment and the Moment is a great tent.  Silnylon on all those captures a little bit more condensation if that freaks you out (I just carry a cotton bandana and wipe off the condensate to clean my face - wring it out in a nearby stream btw as not to spread my funk all over the fabric the next AM).  

There are lighter "shelters" which can bang around in the wind and then there are more sturdy shelters for a little more weight than the Moment, ...   but the Moment is a good compromise.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would say the Moment would be more than adequate for most of the weather encountered in Yosemite during July - Sept.  Some early snow storms might make late Sept iffy, but from what I gather from your question, the moment will be a fine choice.

You did not ask, but let me add this piece of advise:  Start using trekking poles.  It will save your knees and you will be happier in your 50s and 60s.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sil does have a little give when it comes to shedding moderate snow loads.  I'll probably get a cuben shelter (Hexamid with screen) as a secondary shelter but that will be more for rain with bugs and no chance of snow.

The Moment can be somewhat adjusted too if it needs to be more "airy".


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

38? I'm 38, and I think I heard someone say once that Moses backpacked well into his 300's!

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 12:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You could go even lighter if you look at shelters that are supported by trekking poles (if you use them...and I agree with Zeke that you should if you don't already).

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 1:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have a Rainbow, a little larger, little different design.  It sheds wind and 3-5" snow fine.

Never bought into trekking poles, probably never will.  Tried a friends for one trip and hated them, just extra weight to me.  I am 61, been backpacking (long trips/heavy packs/off trail) and a alpine skier for 61 years.  NO knee problems at all.  

Can use them on some tents as poles but why? If you're going to day hike from a base camp your poles would be tied to your tent. Each to his own on them.  Poles are a like them or not like them.  No one I backpack with uses them much.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 2:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are plenty of options in regards to tents these days. I don't consider any of them "proper" anymore. You get what fits your needs. My current shelter selection is a radical change from what I thought I would end up with.

I started with a "generic" Eureka tent (traditional leaky piece of .....). Went to an REI Halfdome (Still generic in design but leaps and bounds in quality). Skip forward twenty years...

3-season shelter - Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Asym (1 lb, 10 oz, more comfortable sleep I've ever gotten in the outdoors and more comfortable than most beds I've owned).

3-season secondary shelter - A tarp. 1 lb but requires parachute cord and is not thrilling for any kind of wind. Usually just gets pulled out when I have a guaranteed wet weekend.

Primary Winter shelter - Golite Shangri-La 5 (2 lbs, 10 oz, 5 man, 4-season, floorless)

Secondary shelter - Outdoor Research Advanced Bivy (2 lbs, 5 oz, single man 4-season)

My suggestion is to go with your gut. Just make sure you avoid a tent that has more bells and whistles unless you really want them. Also, don't try and push a shelter designed for 3-season use into a 4-season shelter. It will not turn out well. It is much better in my opinion to have two shelters each designed for the seasons you are planning to hike in vs. trying to get a "do-all" shelter.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 4:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The original Moment was a hybrid shelter.
Fly with attached floor and door panel.
The current version, the Moment DW is a double wall tent.
Fly and inner go up together but you can set up either independently.
You can also choose between the mesh or fabric (solid) inner.
(some order both...)
BTW, it can take a bit of snow.


(of course you are meant to kick that off but you need to be inside and be awake...)
This is how it looked inside :

Those photos are of the older version , again the new one has two walls but same fly but with two doors >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 5:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I just got back from a 2 night trip using the Moment DW. I've had it almost 6 months now and it has become my favorite solo tent. Just the perfect amount of space for one person and it is ridiculously easy to set up.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Looks pretty nice (lots of room and venting) for a 1 man tent.  Might consider the Double Rainbow at 6 more oz. if you don't want to give up the space you had with the Tree Frog.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you look at the floor plan of the two you can see that the Moment isn't all that much smaller than the Tadpole.
less floor space (it is a solo shelter)  but you have room on either side .



One neat feature with the DW is that you can slide the floor towards either door so you can have a larger vestibule on one side and almost none on the other,or a bit on each as in the drawing.
Handy with a wind shift.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 6:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's kind of hard to see much advantage to the Moment over the Notch, unless you don't carry poles.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 7:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

True, that is why the co-exist.
The Notch is the Moment for trekking pole users.

I prefer the lines of the Moment (aesthetics) but have used the Notch over the Moment because I always carry trekking poles anyway.
At the same time it is almost impossible not to set up the Moment correctly but some do have a bit of a problem with trekking pole supported tents so that could come into play.
You know that from the Contrail. Very easy for the both of us but as you know not for some.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2013, 11:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Franco @ Oct. 04 2013, 7:30 pm)
QUOTE
True, that is why the co-exist.
The Notch is the Moment for trekking pole users.

I prefer the lines of the Moment (aesthetics) but have used the Notch over the Moment because I always carry trekking poles anyway.
At the same time it is almost impossible not to set up the Moment correctly but some do have a bit of a problem with trekking pole supported tents so that could come into play.
You know that from the Contrail. Very easy for the both of us but as you know not for some.

Is the hoop on the Moment anything like the DR in sometimes being difficult to get into the grommets?  That's one of my few minor nits.  I had an idea for a very simple modification that would make it easier, but haven't field-tested the implementation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2013, 1:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Both the Moment DW and the post 2010 Rainbows have pockets for the pole tips.
There is a ladder lock there so that you can pull it taut or loose according to your needs.
The sleeve is also larger than it used to be.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Franco @ Oct. 04 2013, 3:42 pm)
QUOTE
If you look at the floor plan of the two you can see that the Moment isn't all that much smaller than the Tadpole.
less floor space (it is a solo shelter)  but you have room on either side .

Your video with the tent pad curled up at both ends made me think it was a bit smaller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HK1-nryaY0

This guy's video made me think it was as well, maybe the wind or th camera angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKh6eX38Bxs

When I switched from my Thru Hiker (Mtn Hardware's heavier version of the tadpole) and the Black Diamond's Beta Light/Bug it was a win win, more space less weight. Not to mention the porch setup. (it does not taper down or in at the foot end at least to the extent of the Tree Frog. Of course I am assuming the OP is aware of the other differences between this and a "proper" tent, though those are becoming less and less.

I could live with the moment probably be very happy with it, (wasn't an option at the time the DR came out), with its separate inner it reduces the chance of contact with wall's condensation, esp. with its spacious fly maybe more than the DR though its partial mesh walls have prevented me from doing so. Like the DR its bathtub floor is far away from the edges of the fly so much less likely to get rain on it (the DR's ends are closer, but no problems so far). The spacious fly with all the venting options are much better than allot of solo tents, but the head (breathing) end was all but plugged up in that other guy's video with is pad and sleeping bag.  Also being narrow at the head shoulder end seems a bit cramped?

Being able to put the pack in the tent is a little plus too.

Is it worth 6oz. I am not sure, and of course one could talk ones self 6 oz. at a time from the Sublite to the Notch to the Moment to the DR, and suddenly you are talking 20 oz. plus the weight of a larger ground cloth if u use one.  If I was going a hard backpack with long days and little tent time, I might chose the notch and save 14 oz. if taking trekking poles, and I would not be using those for a tripod or maybe dayhiking.

EDIT:

If spec's can be believed TNF tadpole has 26.2 ft floor space and 9 ft vestibule, while the moment shows 18.1 ft floor space and 11.1 vestibule or 35.2 total vs. 29.2 total, about a 20% difference.  (45% more sleeping area not to mention 45" vs 20" at the head end & 50.5 inches vs 42 inches at its widest sleeping width, and 35" vs 20 at the bottom end.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Franco @ Oct. 05 2013, 1:26 am)
QUOTE
Both the Moment DW and the post 2010 Rainbows have pockets for the pole tips.
There is a ladder lock there so that you can pull it taut or loose according to your needs.

Do you have pics?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2013, 4:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dayhiker,
Haganaga is after a solo shelter so my comments where about using the Moment vs the Tadpole as a solo shelter...
The mat you see in my video was 26"  wide mat and yes without the structure of a blown up mat the corners curl up but a fully blown 25" mat does fit in.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2013, 5:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The pockets are much easier than the grommets found on many other tents.  My DR has the pockets.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2013, 5:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Looking at the thread title this morning a question came to mind :
when does a tent become a 'proper' tent ?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 1:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
when does a tent become a 'proper' tent ?


It's like the definition of pornography...hard to describe in legal terms, but you know it when you see it...
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 2:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, I know tents a bit better than some, still I can't tell...
I would like to hear from people that have seen and possibly used a Moment DW if to them it is a tent or not.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 10:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think the term "proper" is really just another term for "Society is comfortable with". I think there are many more designs that I am perfectly comfortable with that I wouldn't have taken a second glance at thirty years ago. I think the Moment DW is fully qualified.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2013, 10:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

You guys are great.  Thanks so much for all the replies.  Looks like I'm going with the Moment.  I'm sure I'll be pleased.

Edit: I guess by "proper" I meant something that is basically set it up and forget about it.  No fiddling necessary for various scenarios.  Much like the Tadpole, there really isn't much to do other than put the poles where they go, throw on the fly, stake it down and leave it alone.  From what I've read about Tarptent type shelters, there's a lot you can monkey around with to get it "right" for multiple situations.  That's all.
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