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Topic: Super Cat pot stand, Just playing around.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2014, 1:32 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The pot stand weighs one ounce, which is five times more than the weight of the stove. But there may be times it's worth it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2014, 2:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I suppose you drilled it out to lighten it, or to keep tigger from suggesting you do so.  I want to know why there is so much material under the cat stove.  It seems like you could reduce that depth by 1/2" and thereby reduce the weight.  Maybe it is a structural thing, and needed for strength?  Looking closer, it may be for the slots you cut to join the 2 pieces into a cross?

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2014, 5:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Apr. 20 2014, 2:30 pm)
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I suppose you drilled it out to lighten it, or to keep tigger from suggesting you do so.  I want to know why there is so much material under the cat stove.  It seems like you could reduce that depth by 1/2" and thereby reduce the weight.  Maybe it is a structural thing, and needed for strength?  Looking closer, it may be for the slots you cut to join the 2 pieces into a cross?

Yeah, I drilled it out primarily to lighten it. The holes reduced the weight by 0.2 ounce. But I also wondered whether the holes would help keep the stand cooler and whether they would help air flow to the stove once I put the windscreen around it. I'm still wondering.

My first, rough version only had 1/2" under the stove. With holes drilled in that version, the weight would be about 0.4 ounces. I felt that if the slits were longer it would be more stable. I wanted to see if getting the stove higher off the ground would reduce how hot the surface beneath the stove got. And I wanted to recess the center to create "legs" so it would sit better on an irregular surface. It's not a structural thing as far as I can tell.

But I think you're right. I think I could easily take at least 3/8" off the bottom and get essentially the same result.

My other idea is to make it a tripod set up. Haven't figured out how to connect the "wings" in the center. But by eliminating one wing, I could reduce the weight even more.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2014, 5:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.libertymountain.com/SupplyI....340.jpg

A little inspiration.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tdale/sets/72157618505469703/

I made the windscreen so it clips on the stand.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2014, 11:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would have drilled it out more...

Maybe cut out a bit of the bottom material by making a bat wing type look?


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 10:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

TDale -- I have a version of the triangular pot stand for my Trangia. My initial reaction was that it wouldn't work for my cat stove because the pot has to sit on the stove. But thinking about it, there may be a way. And I like the way your windscreen attaches to the stand. I'm going to have to try that.

Tigger -- I experimented with different hole sizes, shapes, and patterns. When I took out much more material, the additional flex in the aluminum became noticeable. I'm not sure whether it would be a problem, but I played it safe. I'm going to try your idea of a bat wing look. Your idea also got me thinking about taking out a concave section from each of the sides.

Thanks for the ideas everyone.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 11:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What are you using for a wind break for the stove? As much as I want to like the cat can stove I have yet to fiddle together a decent wind screen for it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tomas @ Apr. 21 2014, 9:10 am)
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What are you using for a wind break for the stove? As much as I want to like the cat can stove I have yet to fiddle together a decent wind screen for it.

Windscreen is EZ
Heavy Duty Foil…folded it twice (for 3 layers) to make it sturdier…punched a bunch of air holes around the bottom:

With Snowpeak 600 cup


and my Litech kettle


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 1:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My windscreen is pretty much the same as red dog's -- a piece of light aluminum flashing with holes punched in the bottom and held together at the ends with a paper clip.

Here's a photo of the setup I used when I tested the stand. There was a light breeze. Twelve ounces of cold tap water in the pot. A little over 0.5 ounces of denatured alcohol. Brought the water to a gentle boil.

The pot is my Trangia pot -- 5.5" diameter. The lid is a stainless lid from another mess kit that fits perfectly and is lighter than the Trangia lid.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 2:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Looking at those pictures I think I see my mistake - I made the screen way too short. It didn't cover the post/mug at all.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 3:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tomas @ Apr. 21 2014, 2:59 pm)
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Looking at those pictures I think I see my mistake - I made the screen way too short. It didn't cover the post/mug at all.

That makes a big difference.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wireframe would be lighter and just as stiff.

Maybe repurpose three titanium tentstakes?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 9:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I came up with a way to make a tripod stand that slips together. Still have some finish work to do. But the concept works. And now the pieces are small enough to fit inside my pot.

HSF -- I think there are some advantages to getting the stove off the ground. I also think that having the stove and stand fitted together makes for a more secure setup. But mostly I'm just playing around to see if it can be done.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 11:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In winter, I can see HUGE advantages of getting it off the ground. The ground is usually what I battle most in winter. If I don't get it enough off the ground, it has trouble lighting. That and having a really stable surface for the pot would be a great combo.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2014, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DaveG @ Apr. 21 2014, 10:57 am)
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TDale -- I have a version of the triangular pot stand for my Trangia. My initial reaction was that it wouldn't work for my cat stove because the pot has to sit on the stove. But thinking about it, there may be a way. And I like the way your windscreen attaches to the stand. I'm going to have to try that.
the sides.

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

Thanks.  It's worked well down to a chilly 17F morning.  The windscreen is just aluminum flashing.  The design of the ends that clip onto the stand took a lot of trial and error.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 12:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Tigger -- In winter, how high off the ground does your stove have to be to light easily?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 12:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DaveG @ Apr. 21 2014, 9:16 pm)
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Tigger -- In winter, how high off the ground does your stove have to be to light easily?

What I've been doing is using my shovel and then using a small square of aluminum folded over and it works alright (but stability gets a bit hairy). .5 inches would be more than enough to allow it to light easily.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 12:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's the finished tripod stand. It weighs 0.7 ounces. (Total weight of stove and stand is 0.9 ounces.) A lot of work to shave 0.3 ounces off the quadpod version, but it was fun. The tripod  stand is not quite as stable but it does break down into a more compact package which can be stored in my pot.  Good enough for now. Time for field testing.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nice...very nice. Theoretically, wouldn't more smaller holes be stronger than a few large holes? Just askin'...

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 8:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ Apr. 22 2014, 1:43 pm)
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Nice...very nice. Theoretically, wouldn't more smaller holes be stronger than a few large holes? Just askin'...

I don't know. I did an Internet search looking for some guidance on lightening holes. Found some rules of thumb but not what I was looking for.

It would take four 1/8" holes to equal the area of one 1/4" hole. Beyond that, I'm at a loss. I'm sure that there is some optimum arrangement in terms of size and location of holes to achieve maximum lightening without sacrificing structural strength. But darned if I know how to figure it out.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 9:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I hope someone speaks up...otherwise, I'm going to be out in my garage drilling two pieces of metal for an hour or so to determine the strength difference based upon hole size, assuming there is one. I'm going to research online as well to see if someone can clarify.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 10:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

FWIW, the two rules of thumb I discovered were (1) the edge of a lightening hole should be at least one diameter away from the edge of the piece (although others said the edge of the hole should be at least one-half diameter away from the edge of the piece) and (2) the edge of a lightening hole should be at least one diameter away from the edge of an adjacent hole (but if you look at images of lightening holes you'll find lots of examples that violate this rule of thumb as well).

If you find an answer, please share.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 10:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Uh, I like that.....  a lot.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2014, 11:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In theory, a 1/4 inch hole absorbs a 1/2 inch section of plate, because of the need to space the holes 1 diameter apart, so each hole takes 1/2 diameter all the way around.   This would include the 1/2 diameter from any edge.  However, because of the odd shape of the stand, there is space not drilled out because of the lack of a 1/2 inch of material.  

With an 1/8th inch hole, the occupied area is but 1/4 inch, making it easier to squeeze in a few extra holes between odd shapes.  This allows for more holes, thus less material, so the weight would be reduced, without affecting the relative strength of the stand at all.

You could lay all of this out beforehand, by using a washer of correct size to indicate the area used by the drilled hole.  Simply draw a circle around the washer with a pencil, and see how many of either size drilled hole can fit on the stand.  

Looking at the prototype, i would hazard a guess that you will be able to add 4-6 more 1/8 inch holes, but not 1-2 more 1/4" holes.

Staggered patterns, like the 8 pips on a playing card, will provide the most holes on a rectangular plate, but with the cut outs on the stand, all bets are off.

However, if you can squeeze two 1/2 inch holes onto the stand, that would be much more weight off, with only a slight reduction of overall strength.

I'm thinking the most material could be removed by making the side arc much deeper, leaving a bare 1/4 inch of material where the stand meets the stove, and the ends of the arc being 1/4" from the current top and bottom of the outside edge of the stand.  The same could be done with the bottom arc, and no holes would be needed at all.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2014, 12:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for saving me having to drill, Zeke...Now, I have to head down to the hardware store to pick me up some metal to make one myself...

Thanks Dave!


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2014, 11:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks Zeke. Very helpful information.

One question. If I cut the side arc deeper, is there an optimum curvature? If I start 1/4" from the top and bottom of the outside edge and draw a circle, I end up with 1/2" of material where the stand meets the stove. To reduce that to 1/4", I would need a parabolic curve. Does that make any real difference?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2014, 9:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How much of this plate aluminum do you have?  My only concern about going in to 1/4" from the stove is the overall stiffness of the remaining stand.  You could cut it as a circle, then test the strength.

Or, you could cut a 1/4" arcing band (like an upper case C) from scrap, and see what strength it had.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2014, 10:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You said something earlier in the thread that got me thinking:

"The pot has to sit on the stove"

You need less than half the metal you have there.  The stand only has to get the stove off the ground.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2014, 4:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think the plan was to make the pot more secure, less tippy, by having it sit on the wings.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 24 2014, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Apr. 24 2014, 4:35 pm)
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I think the plan was to make the pot more secure, less tippy, by having it sit on the wings.  

The pot can't sit on the wings.  It has to sit on the stove to seal it and force the flame out the holes.

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