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Topic: Walk like an Egyptian in our non-shoes< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 1:15 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Vibram has moved to settle a class-action lawsuit brought by a woman who claimed that the company deceived consumers when it claimed, without any scientific backup, that its shoes could decrease foot injuries and strengthen foot muscles. The company agreed to put aside $3.75 million to pay refunds of as much as $94 to anyone who had bought a pair since March 21, 2009, according to Runner’s World.


People who bought these Vibram FiveFinger shoes may be entitled to a refund
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 3:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I bought mine for water shoes, and they work just fine in the kayak, when I remember to take them.  Never ran in them, seldom walked more than from the shore to the tent in them.  Think I'll keep mine, and call it exactly what I thought I was getting.

As for those folks who bought them to improve some foot problem, or to improve some running gait, I think they are entitled to a refund, as long as they are willing to sign a document stating, "I am a dumbass who believes advertising."


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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 3:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Pretty much +1 with ol-zeke's overall sentiment.  I had a pair, wore them about a year, roughly 90% of the time around town.  Was plenty happy with them.  I still have them even though they're pretty worn-through. I suppose I could cheat Vibram and ask for a refund to go buy another pair, but I got exactly what I wanted from them, so nah.  I may still buy another.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 10 2014, 3:04 pm)
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I bought mine for water shoes, and they work just fine in the kayak, when I remember to take them.  Never ran in them, seldom walked more than from the shore to the tent in them.  Think I'll keep mine, and call it exactly what I thought I was getting.

As for those folks who bought them to improve some foot problem, or to improve some running gait, I think they are entitled to a refund, as long as they are willing to sign a document stating, "I am a dumbass who believes advertising."

Do you feel the same way about automobiles that are advertised as safe to drive but are not, and food and beverages that are advertised as safe to consume but are not.  

Same for a company that advertises a 30-day no-questions asked policy, then when you try to return something within the 30 days they say "you believed that ad?  what a dumbass."

I think in this country they way it works is that if a dumass business executive makes factual claims about its product that are not true then the dumass executive has exposed his or her company to paying damages to consumers.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 4:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

First world problems.  

I agree with Zeke and GoBlue.  I like mine a lot, mainly for short walks.  They are also fantastic for backcountry flyfishing, I've carried mine on long backpacking trips for wetwading non-technical waters.  They don't get a whole lot of use, but when they wear out, I'll get another pair.  

All shoe companies make outrageous claims about their shoes, IMHO.  The only shoe related injury I've had came from a pair of Brooks.  Maybe I should start looking for a lawyer.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 4:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ May 10 2014, 1:41 pm)
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Do you feel the same way about automobiles that are advertised as safe to drive but are not, and food and beverages that are advertised as safe to consume but are not.

VFF's are unsafe?  News to me.  Complete non-sequitur.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 4:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Claiming a shoe will solve some foot problem because of it being so much like being barefoot is a lot like saying this new set of shorts will cure your crotch rot because it is a lot like going commando.  Why would you buy those shorts?  Why not just go commando?  Would that threaten your safety?  

If someone put an unsafe product on the market, say tobacco or something, then of course they are responsible for the damage it causes.  VFF are not dangerous, they just don't do all they said they might.

"If an erection lasts more than 4 hours, consult a Dr."  Think anyone took that pill just so they could sport a 4 hour erection?  Think they really thought it would work for 4 hours?

I have no problem with refunding people who were mislead by serious advertisement.  I just don't think this is one of those cases.  I never bought into most advertising, and most of what I did buy, turned out to be baloney.  I finally learned my own lesson before needing to sign the Dumbass certification.  


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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 5:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I get what you're saying, Zeke, but I suspect they were treading (pun fuily intended) on thin ice around making actual medical claims.  

I talked to my podiatrist when the whole barefoot running thing was big, and he was pretty clear that whatever running barefoot might do for those who do it all their lives, feet in the condition mine were (and are) in shouldn't even think about starting.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 5:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Another happy customer of Vibram Five Fingers. I have a half dozen or more, including a couple which are "up-sized" a smidge so I can wear socks, and I love them - but one circuit of the nearby park told me definitively that I couldn't run on gravel, much less concrete, which I avoid like the plague when running. (I still, perhaps gullibly, believe asphalt is preferable to concrete - read it somewhere long long ago in one of those "running mags" - but I try to stay on park surfaces like gravel, dirt or grass whenever possible.)

I'm not much for exploiting the corporates, despite whatever they may (and surely do) do to us.

I have walked in Five Fingers for 5 or 6 miles at a time without much ill effect (wife & I walk 5 miles every night w/o fail, I sometimes to as much as another 5 to 8 more) , but, clearly, YMMV.

Ol-zeke, I too hear that silly "if you get an erection lasting more than 4 hours" crap on the ads for those drugs, but one should always use one's brain, should one not? That addition to the ads is an obvious ploy to hook those who do not, whatever it's basis in tenuous (note the spelling, KenV!) fact.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 6:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ May 10 2014, 4:26 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ May 10 2014, 1:41 pm)
QUOTE
Do you feel the same way about automobiles that are advertised as safe to drive but are not, and food and beverages that are advertised as safe to consume but are not.

VFF's are unsafe?  News to me.  Complete non-sequitur.

LOL...,thanks for the laugh.

I'm always amused by someone who tries to avoid addressing the gist of an analogy by tying to distract attention to a meaningless distinction.

The gist of the analogy is the FALSE CLAIM.  The gist of the analogy is not substance of the false claim.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 6:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That guy claims a can of spray-on black stuff will turn a screen door into a boat hull.  Actually, he never says how many cans it took.  I still don't believe it, and I never bought any to fix a leak in my gutters.

Didn't buy any of that miracle spray NeverWet, or whatever it was that Tigger found.  Since then, I have seen it featured in a magazine, showing just how much it doesn't work.

Fine.  Product fails to deliver what was claimed.  Give the refunds, but only to those who are willing to admit they got snookered.  Have them sign a statement saying they got taken in by an ad man.  All the same to me.  


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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 7:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ May 10 2014, 4:20 pm)
QUOTE

(GoBlueHiker @ May 10 2014, 4:26 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ May 10 2014, 1:41 pm)
QUOTE
Do you feel the same way about automobiles that are advertised as safe to drive but are not, and food and beverages that are advertised as safe to consume but are not.

VFF's are unsafe?  News to me.  Complete non-sequitur.

LOL...,thanks for the laugh.

I'm always amused by someone who tries to avoid addressing the gist of an analogy by tying to distract attention to a meaningless distinction.

The gist of the analogy is the FALSE CLAIM.  The gist of the analogy is not substance of the false claim.

Lol... Nice try.

Unsafe cars and unsafe food are both lethal.  People die from those.  It's hardly a "meaningless distinction" when you ask people if they "feel the same way about" them.  Nobody's died from a VFF shoe.

FWIW, I agree with the suit and also with ol-zeke.  People should get reimbursed if they believed the specific advertising that said it'd cure them of anything.  But your analogies are absurd.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 8:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 10 2014, 3:27 pm)
QUOTE
Didn't buy any of that miracle spray NeverWet, or whatever it was that Tigger found.  Since then, I have seen it featured in a magazine, showing just how much it doesn't work.

That's funny because it's worked just as advertised for me. So much so, that I've spent around $100 on it so far and have used it on everything from my boots, jacket, satellite dish, toilet bowls, to the front porch.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.slate.com/article....ct.html

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PostIcon Posted on: May 10 2014, 9:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes. It does create a frosted blue white hue on things. It has worked great through the winter on my rain shell and winter boots (hasn't rubbed off). It has also worked very well on my toilet, satellite dish, and the front porch. They don't recommend it for use on clothing and warn that it can discolor things (in the instructions). It can also be removed by using soaps and chemicals. It still works very well and water basically leaps off of it.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2014, 3:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ May 10 2014, 11:04 am)
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I bought mine for water shoes, and they work just fine in the kayak, when I remember to take them.  Never ran in them, seldom walked more than from the shore to the tent in them.  Think I'll keep mine, and call it exactly what I thought I was getting.

As for those folks who bought them to improve some foot problem, or to improve some running gait, I think they are entitled to a refund, as long as they are willing to sign a document stating, "I am a dumbass who believes advertising."

I'd suggest it's no different, at all, to someone buying gear that is labelled "waterproof" and turns out not to be. Or buying food claiming to have X calories when it turns out it has Y calories, or, better yet, the producer hasn't even tested to see how many calories it has. If I bought a tent that the mfr tells me weighs 3lb2oz, and it turns out they haven't even weighed it, and then it actually weighs 4lb8oz, I'd reasonably be upset. Nobody's claiming the tent doesn't work .. but I think there should be some degree of "truth in advertising" .. and when any mfr blatantly lies to sell their items, they should be subject to lawsuit.

IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2014, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Had a guy on the Upper Yosemite Falls trail with my group just yesterday in a pair of VFFs. He sang the virtues of the shoes on the way up to everyone who would listen, as we went step after granite step, across cobbles and rocks and jagged edged steps and granite steps and granite steps and granite steps and granite steps....

Somewhere on the way down he suddenly was wearing shoes instead of the VFFs. And kind of walking funny.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2014, 12:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Said it better

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(ol-zeke @ May 10 2014, 6:27 pm)
QUOTE
That guy claims a can of spray-on black stuff will turn a screen door into a boat hull.  Actually, he never says how many cans it took.  I still don't believe it, and I never bought any to fix a leak in my gutters.

Try it.  Works pretty well.  It's just spray caulk.

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(ol-zeke @ May 11 2014, 8:32 am)
QUOTE

Zeke

I don't know how closely you follow T&F and particularly T&F journalism .. but Jon Gugalo is a tool.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2014, 3:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Trinity @ May 10 2014, 3:08 pm)
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They are also fantastic for backcountry flyfishing, I've carried mine on long backpacking trips for wetwading non-technical waters.
I had almost forgotten about this sort of use for VFFs, but it's a very good point.

When we were in Hawaii (Oahu) a couple of years ago for our daughter's graduation (UH Manoa), I had my VFF Treks with me for walking, so I took them to the beach to protect against the lava rock that is almost always present. Not really a problem on Waikiki, but I was pleasantly surprised at the way the VFFs worked - I was completely unaware of them on my feet, and they never came close to coming off.

I was wearing them that year for walking, and the first beach I used them in the water was Kailua/Lanikai.
Kailua Beach, on the eastern shore of Oahu:

Lanikai, just south (within walking distance) of Kailua:


A very good use for Five Fingers shoes - perfect, in fact.
---------------------------------------------------------------
ETA, silly story about the Treks: We were, as usual, in a big rush as we prepared to depart for home, and I'd just worn the Treks at the beach in the morning. We were packing "overload" stuff for shipment back to the states via UPS in order to lighten our weight to get under the air carrier limit, and I put the VFF Treks, still damp after hanging on our tiny lanai all afternoon, in a Ziploc in one of the "ship" boxes. Some three weeks later, they arrived home, somewhat funky smelling, but not totally destroyed. Yes, I know it was a bad idea. After a single run in the washing machine, however, they were good as new, and still quite usable. They're my oldest pair, and I wore them for a short 2 mile walk just last night with the wife, after dinner.

Definitely not good for running, at least for me, but I love 'em.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 13 2014, 9:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gabby,

I've never been a beach person but that bottom picture is stunning!!


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A couple of years ago, it seemed every other trail runner I saw, was wearing a version of those. Now all I can think of is this.



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(Tigger @ May 10 2014, 9:30 pm)
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It has also worked very well on my toilet, satellite dish, and the front porch.

Toilet?  ???

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PostIcon Posted on: May 30 2014, 11:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lots of folks like to say Vibram came up with these claims out of thin air, and everyone who believed them were dumb-asses, but I don't think there is much proof to that either. What Vibram is at fault for, is advertising medical claims without reliable scientific evidence. The problem with the foot is there isnt a whole lot of scientific evidence out there either way.

Shoe manufacturers of 'normal' shoes have been sued as well for claims of what their shoes could do. For example...

http://articles.latimes.com/2012....0120517
Skechers $40 million

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatc....uit-ftc
Reebok $25 million

I think most of the claims were true honestly, from personal experience and those of some of my friends. A shame they couldn’t back it up with acceptable scientific evidence though. Vibram even attempted to educate folks on how to transition, I commended them for that even though I think transitioning to completely barefoot is much better. I can say every aspect that I am aware of about my feet and gait has improved greatly going to barefoot. Minimalist or barefoot shoes attempt to capture that, but still offer some protection and of course some trendy looks so they can make money. They can't make much money on pushing real barefooting!

I've got a couple pairs, I like them for the most part, but there is a lot I don't like about them too, especially when it comes to running. For one, I really can't run in them. Being barefoot is a lot about the nerves feeling as your foot touches the ground and reacting to it. No matter how thin the soles are (and Vibrams arent really as thin as most minimalist shoes) your cutting off a lot of that proprioception. It really does affect my gait not feeling exactly where the ground is touching my foot, and led to a few painful situations! They are also not thick enough to really protect from sharp things, and since your still wearing a shoe with a sole you get used to not paying as close of attention as if you were barefoot.


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(WalksWithBlackflies @ May 28 2014, 8:55 am)
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(Tigger @ May 10 2014, 9:30 pm)
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It has also worked very well on my toilet, satellite dish, and the front porch.

Toilet?  ???

He must REALLY have to go...HAHAHA
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(Adirondackiteer @ May 30 2014, 9:46 pm)
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I can say every aspect that I am aware of about my feet and gait has improved greatly going to barefoot. Minimalist or barefoot shoes attempt to capture that, but still offer some protection and of course some trendy looks so they can make money. They can't make much money on pushing real barefooting!

Being barefoot is a lot about the nerves feeling as your foot touches the ground and reacting to it. No matter how thin the soles are (and Vibrams arent really as thin as most minimalist shoes) your cutting off a lot of that proprioception. It really does affect my gait not feeling exactly where the ground is touching my foot


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PostIcon Posted on: May 31 2014, 8:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Feet aren't all perfect. Some of us get to live with that fact. Barefoot shoes ain't working for me... Not going to try it either. My podiatrist would kill me. No orthotics = miles of pain and suffering. Some of us are not designed to walk barefoot comfortably.

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QUOTE
Where's TNB when you want a really good flame war....

Havent seen him in at least a couple years its seems. If your going the route of shoes (which probably everyone but me here is lol) he was pretty good. Some of his suggestions did guide me toward my last pair of hiking boots I bought (might have even been before I signed up, I don't remember, I lurked for a couple years prior to signing up though). I never really had foot problems hiking, it wasn't until I got more serious into running. I did have some pretty sweaty feet though wearing boots. I guess I traded that for dirty feet.  :D


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???   Shoes optional   :cool:
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» Quick Reply Walk like an Egyptian in our non-shoes
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