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Topic: You had fair warning...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 8:37 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Where's the government with my STUFF"

That has been the sentiment of some, certainly not all, of the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

I'm sick of it. People were complaining about not having drinking water or batteries or baby formula THE DAY AFTER THE HURRICANE!

And not only had we here in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut metro area fair warning that this thing was coming, but we had Irene and an incapacitating blizzard in the last year and change.

A few days' water, extra batteries, food, some protection from the elements. We all know this stuff. We live it. And I'm sure that just about all of us have a go bag and a stash of stuff. For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Really? It KILLS me that stores run out of drinking water time after time. And batteries, and non-perishables. Only because people only think about this stuff when the weather guy starts with the gloom and doom.

And I suppose what bothered me most about it was it legitimized Romney's claim about some people. Certainly not 47%, but some.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 8:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not everyone is a backpacker, and many don't have the time or the means to stock up.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A significant portion of that 47% include housewives who don't work, students who work part time, and the retired. It has nothing to do with people who are worried about surviving after a freak storm. Worrying about being able to feed your baby doesn't confirm anything Romney said.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 5:37 am)
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Certainly not 47%, but some.

The media likes to focus on the whiners and the unprepared.
Showing families that actually did some planning and are dealing with the temporary hardships just doesn't make for good TV.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In some cases it's like the famous financial advisors telling people to save so many months worth of income for a rainy day, and have a certain percentage go into retirement planning.  People may know it is a good idea, but if they are living on top ramen the last week before payday, and telling their kids "not this month" on paying to fix a cavity in their tooth, or get a pair of shoes that doesn't pinch, they can't act on the advice, no matter how many warnings they get. And how far can you evacuate if you're already at the end of your money, your "rope," your strength?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cgaphiker @ Nov. 04 2012, 8:50 am)
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Not everyone is a backpacker, and many don't have the sense to stock up.

There, fixed it for ya

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 8:37 am)
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"Where's the government with my STUFF"

That has been the sentiment of some, certainly not all, of the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

I'm sick of it. People were complaining about not having drinking water or batteries or baby formula THE DAY AFTER THE HURRICANE!

And not only had we here in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut metro area fair warning that this thing was coming, but we had Irene and an incapacitating blizzard in the last year and change.

A few days' water, extra batteries, food, some protection from the elements. We all know this stuff. We live it. And I'm sure that just about all of us have a go bag and a stash of stuff. For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Really? It KILLS me that stores run out of drinking water time after time. And batteries, and non-perishables. Only because people only think about this stuff when the weather guy starts with the gloom and doom.

And I suppose what bothered me most about it was it legitimized Romney's claim about some people. Certainly not 47%, but some.

Hi...


EXCELLENT...!! Well put...!! (There are exceptions, of course, but you were right on!)...!!

The 'average' guy on the street, and the stores, had absolutely no foresight...even with all of the warnings...!!

Where's the government when I screwed up...?? Bah. Humbug.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Where's the political forum when you need one...

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If it bleeds it leads.

The prepared aren't bleeding so: No air time for you!
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Pathfinder1 @ Nov. 04 2012, 11:03 am)
QUOTE

(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 8:37 am)
QUOTE
"Where's the government with my STUFF"

That has been the sentiment of some, certainly not all, of the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

I'm sick of it. People were complaining about not having drinking water or batteries or baby formula THE DAY AFTER THE HURRICANE!

And not only had we here in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut metro area fair warning that this thing was coming, but we had Irene and an incapacitating blizzard in the last year and change.

A few days' water, extra batteries, food, some protection from the elements. We all know this stuff. We live it. And I'm sure that just about all of us have a go bag and a stash of stuff. For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Really? It KILLS me that stores run out of drinking water time after time. And batteries, and non-perishables. Only because people only think about this stuff when the weather guy starts with the gloom and doom.

And I suppose what bothered me most about it was it legitimized Romney's claim about some people. Certainly not 47%, but some.

Hi...


EXCELLENT...!! Well put...!! (There are exceptions, of course, but you were right on!)...!!

The 'average' guy on the street, and the stores, had absolutely no foresight...even with all of the warnings...!!

Where's the government when I screwed up...?? Bah. Humbug.

Steve, I might be punching our ticket to TPA right here to brighten Tigger's morning. I owe you a beer or a couple of specimums from our Krumholz next summer for your herbarium.

I too believe in preparedness and that these people FAILED their civic duty, however with all due respect gentlemen the states most severely impacted by Sandy are "Blue" ones that contribute more PER CAPITA to the Federal Treasury than they take out.

There's a whole lot of red bleeding the Treasury out there indeed HSF, places like Alabama, Mississippi and so many more you shouldn't expect given the words about purported government excess that come out of the mouths of folks like Mitch McConell or John Boehner.

So with all due respect to Governor Romney; BS and PF you can consider me in serious disagreement with the tone of your posts and Governor Romney's in my humble opinion despicable characterization that millions of our mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, and good friends are somehow the ones most responsible for this great society of ours being less than it was not too many years ago when our decisions were far more community oriented than they are now.

We have tough decisions to make in this country, but the right ones more often than not come from the center, not the poles, of the political spectrum. We have revenue and spending problems, not just one or the other.

Paz contigos amigos mios,

John


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree with the OP to a certain extent, but I also realize the point Echo is making as well.

If people had more of a sense of preparedness they could prepare, though. It doesn't take much to stock a jug of water here and there throughout a year, or a couple cans of food. When you set away small portions for the "what if" it adds up over time. A stock pile isn't something you have to go out and buy when the weather man starts in on his rant about "the end of the world is coming - look out". It should be built over time.

Adding to that point, necessities like important medication shouldn't be left to the last day's worth of dosage before getting more. Going to the end of the string isn't good practice, but you don't have to hoard either.

I don't like depleting anything in my "stock piles", but I will dip in to them - and continuously add to.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 11:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I get the feeling some have never stepped foot in a Manhattan apartment. Space is a commodity.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 12:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm not saying it's right to Blame the red cross or other aid for being late or stretched thin. And I know we tend to assume help will come because as Anericans it usually does. I feel for the Moms in places like Haiti who may have lost the tent which was all they had and only have mud to feed their children and know that even if they don't die in a big storm they'll probably just die slower later. My life is so full of reasons to be grateful that I just can't judge anyone who hasn't been as lucky as I am.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I like how the OP and Echo's first posts are both spot-on.

However, I would like to add that an alarming portion of people who live on Ramen the last week before payday probably have more than one flat panel TV, manage to pay for cable for said multiple TVs, enjoy high-speed internet on their computer, somehow find money for nicotine, enjoy their smartphones (with data plans), and probably have beer in the fridge.

First-world problems, people.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This thread belongs in TPA.  Especially since the OP wrote emotionally.
-------------------------

I posted this in the current preparedness thread:

Many people in coastal areas, maybe most, did take Sandy storm warnings seriously and even if they had not been prepared beforehand, rushed about to get at least some of what they needed to do done.  But then there were others just like with Katrina that seem to be in a fog.  And of course governments in those areas, especially local shoreline New Jersey communities had been keeping their head in the sand for decades.  
...
There are simply large numbers of people in every disaster that are unprepared and clueless.   Regardless of how much government civil authorities warn, one can expect that to continue unless someone goes around with a club.   But it is not just flooding.  Out here in California especially Southern California, its wildfires in chaparral areas.  Those expensive homes built into the hilly native vegetation looks so beautiful!   And we also have earthquakes though authorities at least have been banging their hammers enough that many areas outside inner cities are reasonably prepared.
-------------------------

Although some of these people are dealing with day to day week to week survival as Echo related, there are more that are otherwise capable of preparing but choose to ignore such.  Many are just fools and ignorant.  And many of the ignorant are actually intelligent people that may have considerable knowledge and skill in some ways but when it comes to things that are beyond their narrow area of interest, have surprisingly little practical understanding of things most of us are aware of.  

Some ways that comes out is when studies are done of what people know.  There are simply large numbers of people that almost never read newspapers, current event magazines, nor read non-fiction books, educate themselves as adults, nor watch news programs on television, but can talk hours on gossip about some famous entertainer or some inane TV show they watched last night or football or or comic books, or a favorite video game.

Others are the same people one sees in horror movies that when some horrible monster is approaching just stand their in stupidity frozen while everyone else is running away down the street.  Don't think such behavior is only in some film director's mind because videos of the 2004 Indonesian tsunami showed some people running away from the shorelines while others just gawked until it was almost on top of them.

Consider how many people really lead much of their lives rarely having to make decisions themselves and instead have always had others tell them what to do.   Faced with the radical notion of not staying put in safety of their home will choose to avoid doing so unless someone actually grabs them and shakes the cr!@ out of them to wake up and do something.  

Could write several pages more.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, Iwas harsh on Silk, but man when I hear legitimate and...never mind. Sorry Silk.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 1:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 6:37 am)
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For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Common sense is not so common, and some people never learn.

And as long is Uncle Sam is there to bail them out, they never will.  Time for some "tough love"
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 2:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 04 2012, 10:44 am)
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(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 6:37 am)
QUOTE
For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Common sense is not so common, and some people never learn.

And as long is Uncle Sam is there to bail them out, they never will.  Time for some "tough love"

There's a guy just got hauled out of Great Smoky Mountain National Park by the government that might have a different opinion.

Or he wouldn't have made the "whine" over his cellphone I would presume.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 2:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Doing some basic preparation for whatever calamity may befall shouldn't be rocket science nor take much money (doesn't have to be a natural disaster - what if you lose your job?  Do you have a stockpile of food/other necessities that'll get you by for a while?)  

I also think we screw ourselves because we build in low lying coastal areas that can and do get hit by hurricanes, in wildfire prone areas, in flood plains, etc.  Yep, stick our heads in the sand, and hope for a bailout from the govt.  

What's the answer?  Well, due to climate change looks like this may be happening more and more - so maybe people will learn?  

Also agree that the media is focusing on the dimwits - and not the people that did prepare - because that doesn't make an interesting story.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 2:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's not hard to be ready for a short while in most places. People in high-rises are pretty vulnerable, though. Even in where there is less dependence on power, there are limits.  Unless you have an outhouse, a couple weeks for a couple people uses a good bit of  water.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 3:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Let's think about this a bit.

Most, if not all, grocery stores probably ran out of fresh food in the last days before the storm.  Next, anything that could be eaten without heat or added water would be gone.

We are talking about one of the most densely populated parts of the country and "just in time" inventory systems and stores that do not have the space to stock enough inventory, for a week or two, without resupply.

Oh and shall we talk about space for a moment.  I have read about some of the tiny apartments in NY.   Often the people barely have room to turn around, let alone space to store several weeks worth of supplies.  Just think about how much space 20 - 30 gallons of water would need.  

The authorities were telling people to evacuate and at the same time were shutting down all possible routes for the evacuation to happen.

As has already been mentioned often people get paid once a week and they live paycheck to paycheck.  Pass judgement if you want, but I am sure all who do are happy to have cheap labor available so they can enjoy a good return on their investments.

Again, as has already been mentioned, the media will go after the drama stories, not the ones that are tame.   I have not seen big_load on the news.  There he is in the middle of the mess taking care of things so no news reporter will be interested in talking to him.   They want to see tears and interview drama queens/kings.

So, stand in judgement with your 20/20 hindsight vision.  Personally, I don't consider myself that perfect.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 4:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 1:04 pm)
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Let's think about this a bit...

+1 many times over, with what Deborah said.

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(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 1:04 pm)
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Let's think about this a bit.

Think?  NEVER!! (lol) If it doesn't read like a John Wayne screenplay, then obviously it's the victims fault!!

In regards to the NYC/NJ situation, some bosses wanted their employees to start work the next day ... Back to work - El Linko.  What's an employee to do?

Been there myself where an ice storm caused rolling blackouts in a normally hot part of the country - the grid wasn't equipped for subzero and people warming their homes or offices just contributed to the rolling blackouts.  The key -- IMO was the city's employers wouldn't commit to telling those who could leave town, just to leave for a few days while the electric company got everything stable.

Here's a solution.  Close the city (banks, exchanges) for a few days prior and a few days after, letting all leave except emergency workers (including utility repair and skeleton ops staff).  

Why add to the number of potential victims?

Add: I keep a week's worth of Chef Boy-R-De's and 2 weeks of beer before I need to break into the liquor cabinet since my desert neighborhood was snowbound for 2 weeks almost 20 (yikes) years ago.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 3:04 pm)
QUOTE
Let's think about this a bit.

Most, if not all, grocery stores probably ran out of fresh food in the last days before the storm.  Next, anything that could be eaten without heat or added water would be gone.

We are talking about one of the most densely populated parts of the country and "just in time" inventory systems and stores that do not have the space to stock enough inventory, for a week or two, without resupply.

Oh and shall we talk about space for a moment.  I have read about some of the tiny apartments in NY.   Often the people barely have room to turn around, let alone space to store several weeks worth of supplies.  Just think about how much space 20 - 30 gallons of water would need.  

The authorities were telling people to evacuate and at the same time were shutting down all possible routes for the evacuation to happen.

As has already been mentioned often people get paid once a week and they live paycheck to paycheck.  Pass judgement if you want, but I am sure all who do are happy to have cheap labor available so they can enjoy a good return on their investments.

Again, as has already been mentioned, the media will go after the drama stories, not the ones that are tame.   I have not seen big_load on the news.  There he is in the middle of the mess taking care of things so no news reporter will be interested in talking to him.   They want to see tears and interview drama queens/kings.

So, stand in judgement with your 20/20 hindsight vision.  Personally, I don't consider myself that perfect.

Buy one extra can of veggies a month, or a couple of packages of tuna. Save some soda bottles. When you buy two batteries you need now, buy four. And it's not like we're not confronted with this stuff all the time. A power outage, a fire, water main break, whatever.

I'm sorry, I just can't condone ignorance. And I think people confuse ignorance with stupidity. The root word of ignorance is ignore. I've always defined ignorance as being aware of something, but choosing to react to it in an unreasonable manner.

The root word of stupidity is stupid.

And I'm not going to condone this behavior, or lack thereof, for the lack of resources. If all you have tomorrow is a few two liter bottles tucked away, you've started. And you won't be one of the unprepared masses yelling into a News 7 microphone, "Where's the Government with my STUFF! (as apparently edited, and an edit I concede.)"

At least not for water.

And we have had fair warning. From last week's warnings to those decades past, even to those we know will come - fair warning.

It's the cliched epitome of insanity: Be warned, do nothing, suffer, repeat.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I lived in the BVI (Caribbean) for 7 years and got pretty used to the hurricane drills.  We usually had half-dozen serious threats every year.  I was there for Luis and Marilyn in 1995.

During hurricane season, I just routinely had 2-3 days worth of food, water, propane and extra cash around.  Unlike earthquakes and tornadoes, you almost always get a little notice for hurricanes, then I'd add a few more days' worth.  I wanted enough for a week.  Then the day before, we'd fill all the bathtubs with water plus every pot, bowl, bucket we had in the house.  We filled all the trash barrels with water for flushing toilets.

We always managed to get by.  Living on an island meant evacuation wasn't an option.  I don't remember the government ever giving us help though FEMA was very active in the (American) Virgin Islands.

Our hurricane food of choice was pasta.  The need for food/water/fuel is pretty common sense but the lesson I learned early on was to have cash.  When banks are closed and nobody has power, you need cash.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Personally, I like to cut people some slack.  I recommend others do it as well.  #1-Cause you just might need for someone to cut you some slack one day in the near or not so near future.  #2-If you are over nthe age of 20, then you have undoubtedly been cut some slack for your own lack in the past, some more than others.

Rumi    <~~~~~slacker


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

+1 To Deborah

+1 to RumiDude

I bought the last 8 gallons of water at my local supermarket. There was a line of people behind me looking for water. Are they slackers? The store was expecting shipments in up until the storm, but they were getting smaller and smaller as demand was going up across the entire eastern seaboard.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Judgement threads are the most telling about who people really are.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Nov. 04 2012, 3:51 pm)
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Judgement threads are the most telling about who people really are.

yep.

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(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 5:55 pm)
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(no_granola @ Nov. 04 2012, 3:51 pm)
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Judgement threads are the most telling about who people really are.

yep.

Not that I'm above passing judgement . . . but I still help people when I can.

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