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Topic: You had fair warning...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 31
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 6:00 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Nov. 04 2012, 3:59 pm)
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(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 5:55 pm)
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(no_granola @ Nov. 04 2012, 3:51 pm)
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Judgement threads are the most telling about who people really are.

yep.

Not that I'm above passing judgement . . . but I still help people when I can.

yep.

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“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn”  David Russell
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Nov. 04 2012, 8:37 am)
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"Where's the government with my STUFF"

That has been the sentiment of some, certainly not all, of the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

I'm sick of it. People were complaining about not having drinking water or batteries or baby formula THE DAY AFTER THE HURRICANE!

And not only had we here in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut metro area fair warning that this thing was coming, but we had Irene and an incapacitating blizzard in the last year and change.

A few days' water, extra batteries, food, some protection from the elements. We all know this stuff. We live it. And I'm sure that just about all of us have a go bag and a stash of stuff. For us it's common sense. But how many times do people here, anywhere for that matter, have to go through something like this to learn?

Really? It KILLS me that stores run out of drinking water time after time. And batteries, and non-perishables. Only because people only think about this stuff when the weather guy starts with the gloom and doom.

And I suppose what bothered me most about it was it legitimized Romney's claim about some people. Certainly not 47%, but some.

I agree with you on this matter.  The number of people who make no plans whatsoever for basic life sustaining supplies for just a few days always amazes me.  You can get 4 gallons of spring water for $5. 10 cans of soup for $10.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've been frustrated watching the storm coverage as well. We have a tiny house - 700 square feet - and manage to keep a few weeks of food/water on hand. Extra water is pretty easy. When I was little we always learned that when the "whatever" is near (in our case, usually big fires), you fill up all of the bathtubs and sinks. Free. We also saved our milk jugs and kept those full of water. We also kept a jug of bleach around to use to purify water, with the ratio of bleach drops per gallon written on the side in a sharpie.

We lived on my grandparents fixed social security income, and always had at least 30-60 days worth of food on hand. Sales, buy a few extra here and there, it adds up quick. We also had a garden that we canned the extras from. (You could even have a container garden in the tiniest tiny apartment in NY!)

Then again...you have to be taught to do these things. People don't understand modern supply logistics, and like has been mentioned already, the "just in time" system. I don't know that this is political - just a lack of self-reliance that I see getting even worse in the next generation. And FEMA? Adding to it. Their website says to have only 72 hours worth of supplies. REALLY? Why would they perpetuate this?

It is frustrating. Even more frustrating that some hospital generators lasted less than 6 hours. My husband installs those exact type of generators out here (he even did the Red Cross' very own West Coast Emergency Operations Center! The generator, back up battery banks, communications upgrade...it's great!) and there just isn't a good reason why these critical systems failed. It's sad...and scary.

There was a clip on the news a few days ago of a woman whose house had been severely damaged by the storm, and she was screaming at whatever politician was there to tour the damage. She was screaming "fix it, when are you going to fix it!!" at him. Not "help," not "what am I going to do," not, "I'm happy to be alive," just "fix it."

There will be plenty of disaster aid/loans for everyone to get rebuilt. There will be lots of habitat for humanity and other projects. Everyone will help out, public  & private alike, and it will take a long time to rebuild. But that's what communities do...help each other. But "fix it!"?

I can't get that image out of my mind, and it makes me afraid for the future. I understand paycheck to paycheck is really really hard, especially when the next paycheck doesn't come. Circumstances can be crazy, but where do we draw the line between "they're having a hard time" and "you have to take a little personal responsibility?"

Another random food saving anecdote...sometimes our local food bank would have more produce than they could distribute to their service area during the summer/fall months. When I was still living with my mom (who was too busy drinking to work, so talk about 0 income!), we would go down and collect all of the "second" rate produce we could fit in her little car. We would spend ALL WEEKEND canning and canning and canning...we would get the canning supplies from goodwill, really cheap, so the only thing we had to buy were lids. We always had something yum in the pantry to pop open when food ran out. My grandma and I would do that too.

Maybe instead of making people on welfare sit in the EDD office blindly sending off resumes, they could offer "self-preservation" type classes? Canning, gardening, sewing?

That was all so random. Sorry. Blame the meds :)


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QUOTE
...there's just something about him.

Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Nov. 04 2012, 5:12 pm)
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She was screaming "fix it, when are you going to fix it!!" at him. Not "help," not "what am I going to do," not, "I'm happy to be alive," just "fix it."

The woman was in shock.  People are not thinking straight when they are in shock.  Some are very logical and philosophical about the situation, others simply cannot get to that level.  The fact that their little controlled environment is destroyed is enough to send them into shock and they will say/do things that they may not otherwise do.

I'm just glad that I don't have to deal with the logistics of the recovery.   I can only imagine what they are going through.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What we think we would do and what we actually do in a particular situation may not correspond...
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Nov. 04 2012, 7:12 pm)
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I've been frustrated watching the storm coverage as well. We have a tiny house - 700 square feet - and manage to keep a few weeks of food/water on hand. Extra water is pretty easy. When I was little we always learned that when the "whatever" is near (in our case, usually big fires), you fill up all of the bathtubs and sinks. Free. We also saved our milk jugs and kept those full of water. We also kept a jug of bleach around to use to purify water, with the ratio of bleach drops per gallon written on the side in a sharpie.

We lived on my grandparents fixed social security income, and always had at least 30-60 days worth of food on hand. Sales, buy a few extra here and there, it adds up quick. We also had a garden that we canned the extras from. (You could even have a container garden in the tiniest tiny apartment in NY!)

Then again...you have to be taught to do these things. People don't understand modern supply logistics, and like has been mentioned already, the "just in time" system. I don't know that this is political - just a lack of self-reliance that I see getting even worse in the next generation.

Maybe instead of making people on welfare sit in the EDD office blindly sending off resumes, they could offer "self-preservation" type classes? Canning, gardening, sewing?

Ditto - I've lived in tiny spaces before as well - studio apartments, tent cabins, and the like.  I still managed to keep extra food/water/batteries/other misc emergency supplies on hand.  But this is how I was raised.  I think living on a low/fixed income and/or learning from Grandparents who lived through the Great Depression, maybe that was the ticket to learning to put these things aside to prepare for the unexpected.  

My Grandma lived through the Great Depression and had 7 kids - and a husband who ended up an alcoholic.  Needless to say she learned to be very thrifty (never buy anything that's not on sale or w/o coupons and frequent thrift stores/yardsales and even occasionally "dumpster diving") and, most of all, always have a few extra necessities set aside for the "bad times".


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

NM

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 7:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BTW, we sent a bunch of our hotshot fire crews to aid in the recovery - just like we did during Katrina.  During Katrina a very favorable news story involved the work of fire crews on assignment to provide humanitarian support of hurricane evacuees, commonly referred to in the article as the “Green Pants.”  Just find someone wearing green pants and they will help you anyway that they can!  After all the FS is a "can do" agency!

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 8:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

@tarol I'll say "Hi" if I see any, but then I'll say "Hi" to just about anybody.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 8:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Deborah @ Nov. 04 2012, 4:20 pm)
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The woman was in shock.

I started to say "I hope so" but that's not quite right, you don't hope for someone to be in shock. I think what I'm looking for is "I hope she had no idea what she was saying."

..and then..shame on the news crews for showing it.

Franco: I guess that is true in a way, but maybe also not. We are who we are, and a natural disaster doesn't make us a different person. I'd never be the "YOU fix it" person, I'd be the "which insurance company, agency, or FEMA loan person can get funds into my bank first while I have a rented backhoe and a crew of people start the demolition so we can get a-workin" person. I'd probably just drive the bobcat around town, moving things for anyone that needed it.

Wait. I've done that. We had horrible flooding in my area when I was about 12, and my grandpa happened to have a good sized back hoe rented when it happened. We ran around clearing driveways of mud, tearing down small structures that were dangerous, etc. It was awesome, grandpa had just spent the summer showing me how to drive the thing.

So I know exactly what I would do. Get to working and helping.


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...there's just something about him.

Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 8:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Nov. 04 2012, 6:49 pm)
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So I know exactly what I would do. Get to working and helping.

Of course you would and so would I.  But, we are both strong people.  

Most of the people who frequent this site are strong and I don't just mean physically strong.  Also, I would venture to say that the average IQ of most of the people here is above the national average.  We have some very well educated and talented people here.  

What is the national average IQ?  I don't know, but remember an average is just that... there are people well below it and well above it.  Those on the upper side who are hell bent on condemning those on the lower end are missing a part of their humanity.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Judging folks is way above my paygrade.

And there is so much not taken into consideration when your sitting comfy behind your computer, and the people on the other end are in a crisis.

Now don’t get me wrong I 'feel' the same way to a degree, like when it comes to people that did not prepare when they had the opportunity to... but not everyone has the opportunity too. There are so many possible reasons that folks might not have prepared that it is probable that amongst millions there will be a large amount of people that for what ever reason weren’t prepared. For example, there could have been immigrants just moved in that have no experience with hurricanes, or how hard it would be to get supplies locally. What about the guy that just got laid off a couple weeks ago that just went through his backup food already, and doesn’t have money to buy stuff at the moment. How about your in laws that were in town to visit, I don’t think my aunt brings a 'bug out bag' with her or hurricane supplies. How about commuters that just happened to be there at the time, or folks stranded at the airport waiting on a connecting flight? Or someone that just came into town for a couple days for a business conference. When I fly for work I pack light. Usually just a carry-on for a week trip. I don’t bring mountain house and a stove with me. None of these folks are going to be even able to be prepared for a storm of the century. And that’s probably like 1% of the possible reasons you might not be able to prepare.

I consider myself to be pretty prepared, not that I am a doomsday preper but my lifestyle is like that of the Amish, for example. I have a large garden, fruit trees, berries, etc, and I dry or smoke stuff, can, and freeze. I hunt from my woods. I want chickens but don’t have any yet, the neighbors do and we get their eggs. Food wise I could probably be self sufficient for a while. I also cut my own firewood from the woods and heat our home with it, we have 3 wood stoves. I stock up and rotate through gas, I have several tractors, generator, etc. But what if I had to evacuate? Sure if I had time and means I could pack stuff to get us buy for a while, but I'd still be giving up a lot that I cant take with me. And I could guarantee if it came to an evacuation I probably would be a little irrational, perhaps a little panicky, and I'd probably be forgetting many things. What is the saying, to err is human?

I'm sure there are also lots of folks who were prepared, but still needed assistance. In crisis situations reasoning is often at its worse. You forget things. Or, lets say you were stocked up with a couple weeks worth of food and supplies... and then your basement floods (and all your supplies were in the basement) or your house collapses. Or perhaps you just had to evacuate. A bunch of barrels of water or a generator wont do you any good when your on a bus or crammed in a car with a bunch of people.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Adirondackiteer @ Nov. 04 2012, 9:16 pm)
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I'm sure there are also lots of folks who were prepared, but still needed assistance. In crisis situations reasoning is often at its worse. You forget things. Or, lets say you were stocked up with a couple weeks worth of food and supplies... and then your basement floods (and all your supplies were in the basement) or your house collapses. Or perhaps you just had to evacuate. A bunch of barrels of water or a generator wont do you any good when your on a bus or crammed in a car with a bunch of people.

You win. This is one of those "Stupidest Threads Of All Time"

What if you were walking down the street and a piano fell on your head? Well, you're an idiot because you weren't wearing a piano helmet.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Franco @ Nov. 04 2012, 6:35 pm)
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What we think we would do and what we actually do in a particular situation may not correspond...

Exactly.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 04 2012, 9:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
"Where's the government with my STUFF"


Socialism.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One good result of this storm is it has slapped into awareness a large number of authorities, coastal businesses, home owners, and their politician that had been ignoring their situation.  Just search on "sandy AND "unprepared".   Lots of the media is now talking about it and will be forced to continue doing so because now as with Katrina, a huge amount of money is involved.  Just read how only 15% to 20% of coastal residence in known flood areas bothered to have insurance.  In other words they were hoping disaster would never occur.  Same denying mindset in other areas where disasters are likely over long periods of decades but for long periods between events lull people into gambling the predictions of experts will never occur.  

Read another story of how one coastal home owner vaguely heard the storm might be twice as bad as the previous worst storm Irene on record and then recalled since that storm caused a rise of x inches, he would be ok because a 2x inch rise was a bit below the level of his floor.  And of course it surprised him when it rose a lot more.  Am I surprised that some people can rationalize non-sense like that?  

Three reader comments on a coastal city newspaper in another region about how less than 20% of the northeast coastal residents even had coverage via the National Flood Insurance Program :

>>>Dumb people live where it could flood but don't want to spend money on a flood policy..I don't feel sorry for them.

>>>It could potentially flood most anywhere. These folks gambled and lost. They will still probably expect for the government to bail them out.

>>>Deja Vu, here we go again. People universally love insurance whenever they have a claim and hate it when they don't. People have a remarkable ability to delude themselves into believing that most anything is true; if it serves their purpose. I'm sorry that most of these folks didn't have flood insurance, but it is what it is. They were hit by Irene a year ago and that should have been a wake up call for them. Apparently it wasn't.

---------------

And last Friday surfing channels I stopped to catch Aerosmith without their drummer on the NBC benefit concert over The Weather Channel.  Superb live rendition of Dream On.  A lot of good people that did everything anyone could expect have also ended up with destroyed homes and I hope the best for them in their time of need.   I then went online at www.redcross.org and donated a modest $10 to their disaster relief effort.


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...David

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sometimes people say things or believe in things that just amaze me beyond belief.  I’m talking about good people and yet have, I do not know, maybe a distorted sense of empathy mixed with a mega-mania feeling of self worth. All giving the message - He should do this, she should have done that.  Talk like me, think as I think, do what I think you should do. No room to break down; do what I think I would do. Live the same life that I do and come out of it with the same vision of reality that I have.  Your fault, not my fault, it would never happen to me. If it did happen to me, then you know it is not my fault. Take care of yourself, pay your taxes and expect nothing from your government or people.  Your fault, not my fault, I had it so bad but I made it, why can’t you do it. On and on and on. And at the same time, truly being good people, funny sometime in so many ways.

Ah, then there are those voices telling us that we are all just human beings, communities of good people, who’s fault, no fault, we as human beings help each other.  Right, wrong, who knows?  We as human beings help each other, that is one of the best ingredients that makes for good neighbors, a good life and being able to share this world with each other. Teaching and learning from each other, not necessarily being judgmental of everything.  

I have nothing intellectually speaking to even begin to start playing a blaming game, though I do know that there are a lot of good people going through a mighty bad time and truly need all the help as a nation of communities that we can give.


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The quest for adventure is a never ending pursuit, an all consuming way to live life, it is a deep feeling that will never go away, embrace that feeling and have fun with your adventures.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 10:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi...


When I received word via TV that Sandy was coming, I e-mailed friends and family to suggest that they fill up their bathtubs in advance (even if they were on city water), to fill up their vehicles gas tanks, and to put bottles of water to freeze in their freezers to help keep it cold when power fails, and to also keep frozen bottles of water in their refrigerator for the same reason.

I also did the same, other than I didn't have enough cash to fully top off my vehicle's gas tank...!! I also stocked up on 'extra' food...all PRIOR to the storm, when stores were still fully stocked.

We here in the lower Catskill Mountains were fairly lucky...many downed trees...some of them doing damage to homes and power lines. Electricity out for a week in some of our areas. Water damage in some areas. Not bad, compared to some of the other local areas.

Yet, we who went through those simple preparations had little trouble through those power outages.

The unprepared didn't fare as well. Even the POLICE DEPARTMENT had to get a generator running outside on the sidewalk, and ran an extension cord in through a window to keep their 911 system running (and I thought all PDs had automatic generator backup. Boy, was I wrong!)...!!

Moral to this tale? It doesn't take a lot of smarts..or even a lot of money (usually) to do those simple preparations in advance.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 11:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think there is a big difference between city and country living. I saw a news clip of suburban/rural NJ, and residents were out with chainsaws clearing roads, collecting supplies for those that lost homes, etc... basically taking care of things themselves. Later on, the news switched to NYC, where some residents were saying that even after the storm surge left, areas have remained underwater. They then pointed to a storm drain and said, "See... that storm drain is plugged with leaves... when are they going to clear it?" Being a city resident, they pay for services and come to expect/rely on them. When a storm like Sandy comes along, it overwhelms the system, but people still remain in their day-to-day mindset.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ Nov. 04 2012, 9:26 pm)
QUOTE

(Adirondackiteer @ Nov. 04 2012, 9:16 pm)
QUOTE
I'm sure there are also lots of folks who were prepared, but still needed assistance. In crisis situations reasoning is often at its worse. You forget things. Or, lets say you were stocked up with a couple weeks worth of food and supplies... and then your basement floods (and all your supplies were in the basement) or your house collapses. Or perhaps you just had to evacuate. A bunch of barrels of water or a generator wont do you any good when your on a bus or crammed in a car with a bunch of people.

You win. This is one of those "Stupidest Threads Of All Time"

What if you were walking down the street and a piano fell on your head? Well, you're an idiot because you weren't wearing a piano helmet.

Common sense would tell you not to walk underneath dangling pianos.

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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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I WANT MY MTV!

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Jeez-o-pete, people!

This is not about judging PEOPLE, it is about judging ACTIONS (or lack thereof). We judge actions daily.

Don't believe me? Think about it the next time some jerk cuts you off on the freeway, or the next time you see some young male person walking around with their pants sagging below their butts, or when you see a bunch of litter on the side of your favorite trail.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have Internet and a computer. I judge.

What came first the idiot or the Bad decision?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Nov. 05 2012, 11:32 am)
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(Marmotstew @ Nov. 04 2012, 9:26 pm)
QUOTE

(Adirondackiteer @ Nov. 04 2012, 9:16 pm)
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I'm sure there are also lots of folks who were prepared, but still needed assistance. In crisis situations reasoning is often at its worse. You forget things. Or, lets say you were stocked up with a couple weeks worth of food and supplies... and then your basement floods (and all your supplies were in the basement) or your house collapses. Or perhaps you just had to evacuate. A bunch of barrels of water or a generator wont do you any good when your on a bus or crammed in a car with a bunch of people.

You win. This is one of those "Stupidest Threads Of All Time"

What if you were walking down the street and a piano fell on your head? Well, you're an idiot because you weren't wearing a piano helmet.

Common sense would tell you not to walk underneath dangling pianos.

Unless you are wearing a piano helmet.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A piano helmet is moving to the top of my gear wish-list.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ImmortalBen @ Nov. 05 2012, 9:40 am)
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A piano helmet is moving to the top of my gear wish-list.

So that's the explanation for the Green Bay cheese hats?
Scary stuff. Cheddar is pretty dense after all.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 05 2012, 10:13 am)
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(ImmortalBen @ Nov. 05 2012, 9:40 am)
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A piano helmet is moving to the top of my gear wish-list.

So that's the explanation for the Green Bay cheese hats?
Scary stuff. Cheddar is pretty dense after all.

Makes sense to me :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 6:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As backpackers, we are probably more prepared than the average citizen because who among us doesn't have a drawer full of freeze dried food, stoves with gas canisters and a water treatment option?  These things aren't even on the radar of any of my non-backpacking friends!  I'm not particularly prepared, but could get by just by "camping" at home.

A lot of this seems to be a case of priorities.  For some people, it's a priority to be prepared, and others place more priority on instant gratification.

QUOTE
However, I would like to add that an alarming portion of people who live on Ramen the last week before payday probably have more than one flat panel TV, manage to pay for cable for said multiple TVs, enjoy high-speed internet on their computer, somehow find money for nicotine, enjoy their smartphones (with data plans), and probably have beer in the fridge.


Exactly.  I think that 47% quote has been blown out of proportion and overanalyzed.  The kind of people I have a problem with are not the disabled, veterans or stay at home moms (provided there is a working mom or dad in the equation) it's people that think it's OK for the taxpayers to buy their groceries, but they're still getting manicures once a week.  As my grandmother would say, “no tienes vergüenza“


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 6:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

+1 to what Firedancer said... but I have no idea what her grandmother said.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 6:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

As long as abuses are kept rare by correct procedures (and that's always evolving to better and better eliminate the scammers) that a very few might be able to scam the system is far preferable to eliminating the deserving of their neighbor's help (through their government's action) in some hapless pursuit of "the perfect".

That backpackers are "accidentally" prepared due to a side effect of our hobby makes sense. Oh sure I have a "just in case" flashlight somewhere but when the power goes off it's to my backpacking headlights I go, lights NOT chosen in any way be a backup for home... and pretty much my entire car camping stash has that extra use.
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