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Topic: Given our penchant for judging...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 31
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:13 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Nov. 08 2012, 9:27 am)
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In my way of thinking, it is one thing to say "that was a bad decision" and quite another to say "that person is an idiot".  Some may not agree, but that is how I split the hair.
...

That's the spirit ("that was a bad decision") in which parks are starting to do pages like this one I expect.

Search and Rescue: Lessons from the Field

"Each year, park rangers and search and rescue (SAR) personnel respond to approximately 250 emergency incidents in Yosemite National Park. The park's Preventive Search and Rescue (PSAR) program posts selected SAR incident reports on this blog in the hopes that readers can learn from the experiences of others..."
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Zeke  I'm sorry for your lose.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the kind thoughts, but I did not retell a 5 yr old story to remind others of my loss, but to remind others that all of us are human and sometimes err.  Some mistakes are easier to live with.  Like that time I ate a single serving turkey spam packet that was a couple of yrs past the expiration date.  I lived, but was fairly miserable for a couple of hours.  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Nov. 08 2012, 10:19 am)
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Thanks for the kind thoughts, but I did not retell a 5 yr old story to remind others of my loss, but to remind others that all of us are human and sometimes err.

Either way people interpret and respond to your story, the purpose is served.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 2:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Whatever man.  I'm pretty sure I've never made a mistake in the backcountry. :p

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 3:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 08 2012, 11:44 am)
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Whatever man.  I'm pretty sure I've never made a mistake in the backcountry. :p

So true, all the moronic things I've ever done out there I did on purpose.

Immortality is a wonderfully freeing thing ya know.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 4:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I remember the anxiety of that day, as this forum realized the bad news coming from the canyon could be about some of our own, and then the sadness when we realized tha was indeed the case.  And I spent the rest of that day thinking of all the mistakes I've made, or seen others make, in the backcountry, and how lucky I've been on several occasions.  
I think it can be constructive and informative to consider SAR situations for what we can learn, and to help us perhaps carry more caution with us.  As you point out, that can be done without the ridicule or condemning of the folks involved.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 6:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ol-zeke, we all mourned with you when you lost April. Those were sad days indeed when we realized it was your lovely wife who succumbed to the heat in the Canyon. I am a firm believer that when it is our time to go, we go, no matter where we are are.

I have been judgmental in the past and will probably be judgmental again sometime in the future. No guarantees. But i will try to stop and think before I pass judgement on someone again.

BUT....I do give all of you permission to trash me the next time I do something that is worthy of trashing  :p  :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 6:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Nov. 08 2012, 12:27 pm)
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In my way of thinking, it is one thing to say "that was a bad decision" and quite another to say "that person is an idiot".  Some may not agree, but that is how I split the hair.

O-Z, there are mistakes and there are "hold my beer and watch this" mistakes.  I think, as a whole, we differentiate well between them.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 7:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 08 2012, 3:00 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 08 2012, 11:44 am)
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Whatever man.  I'm pretty sure I've never made a mistake in the backcountry. :p

So true, all the moronic things I've ever done out there I did on purpose.

Immortality is a wonderfully freeing thing ya know.

I'm usually good in the woods. My problems usually start in front of an alter, standing next to a woman in a white dress.  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 7:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eyebp @ Nov. 08 2012, 7:02 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 08 2012, 3:00 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 08 2012, 11:44 am)
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Whatever man.  I'm pretty sure I've never made a mistake in the backcountry. :p

So true, all the moronic things I've ever done out there I did on purpose.

Immortality is a wonderfully freeing thing ya know.

I'm usually good in the woods. My problems usually start in front of an alter, standing next to a woman in a white dress.  :D

I'm glad you didn't wear that white dress to our last campout.

:D


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 7:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This might seem odd, but I downloaded the group picture that fateful trip, and once in a while when a topic like this comes up, I look at it and ponder how things can sometimes go wrong.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eyebp @ Nov. 08 2012, 6:02 pm)
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My problems usually start in front of an alter, standing next to a woman in a white dress.  :D

Those problems likely start somewhere far far far from an altar.  :;):

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Nov. 08 2012, 4:19 pm)
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This might seem odd, but I downloaded the group picture that fateful trip, and once in a while when a topic like this comes up, I look at it and ponder how things can sometimes go wrong.

I have a photo from that trip which I sometimes look upon and brings back feelings which words fail.  It is a photo of the morning we left Phoenix for the Canyon.  We ate a huge breakfast in Phoenix and all sat at a big booth.  I got up and took a group photo, minus me of course.  I think that photo wraps up the entire trip for me, good and bad.

Like zeke, I remember things that cause me to kick myself, one memory in particular. I have stopped trying to fight those feelings, just use them as a marker for myself.  It is one of those events which has changed me and shaped who I am presently.  

Anyway, the photo I speak of is below.  I kind wish I had gotten the server to take this picture with me in it but too late now.


Rumi


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CajunHiker @ Nov. 08 2012, 5:16 pm)
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(eyebp @ Nov. 08 2012, 6:02 pm)
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My problems usually start in front of an alter, standing next to a woman in a white dress.  :D

Those problems likely start somewhere far far far from an altar.  :;):

And with any dresses left way downstairs on the kitchen floor....

Come to think on it....
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm sorry Zeke. That's a terrible loss.

It's true about judging others AND ourselves. It's unproductive and even painful, yet some of us keep on doing it. For me, it's less than before and I'm more conscious of it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Nov. 08 2012, 5:21 pm)
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 I kind wish I had gotten the server to take this picture with me in it but too late now.


Rumi

We could photoshop you into it, like that ground hog or whatever it is.  Maybe use a picture of you from late during my wedding reception.  LOL  

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 8:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Photoshop in a marmot.  hahahaha

I am not sure there are any photos of the wedding reception which cannot be plausibly denied or explained away ... I think ...  I hope.

Rumi


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 9:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I can offer this group picture. It was taken by the shuttle driver. We're at the top of Bass Canyon.



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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 9:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's only human to make judgements.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 9:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All I know is it would be an honor to share a trail one day with you ol-zeke and though I have never had the pleasure to meet Echo in person, I am honored to call her a friend.

I am guilty of making false judgments all the time, though I truly try not to and learn something from the times I do.


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(desert dweller @ Nov. 08 2012, 9:05 pm)
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I can offer this group picture. It was taken by the shuttle driver. We're at the top of Bass Canyon.

that's the one I saved. I couldn't remember where it came from.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 11:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Zeke, I had no idea about your loss... I'm so very sorry.

As to the other "judgement thread"... by intention I didn't post on it. Were I in that hikers shoes I might likely have dove right in as well, and I'm not exactly a novice to the backcountry in all four seasons.

I want to meet this person that never has had a lapse in judgement... oh yeah I forgot, there was only one and we crucified him.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 11:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not wanting to point any blame at my brother-in-law because we don't blame him, we love him tons, but another reason not to be quick to call names and laugh at people's sorrows are the families that they leave behind will be on-lone googling mentions of their loved ones, looking for answers and not needing anything to add to the pain.  I remember being furious when I googled, "heat death grand canyon" and found an ad for a cool shoe that specifically told the story about April and a cardiologist who died in the canyon that same day, and listed those two deaths as proof that people should buy their heat wicking shoes?

People who loved April, and still do even though we love the new wife too.  Musicman (My music teacher husband) is the youngest of 6 siblings and April was the oldest.


But does my husband look more like April or Vince?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 12:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE



I know, here is me being judgmental but I still am surprised how angry this makes me feel even now.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 10:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Zeke, I did not know this. I am very sorry to hear of this tragic accident. Like Echo, I believe when it's your time to go, it's time.
I also try not to judge but fail at times. I hope your story helps me to think before judging someone.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Echo, I'm just boggled.  That ad may not be judgmental, but "tasteless" scarcely begins to describe it!

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(RebeccaD @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:11 am)
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Echo, I'm just boggled.  That ad may not be judgmental, but "tasteless" scarcely begins to describe it!

Tasteless AND stupid... I wonder who's going to hike in flip-flops.

Sheesh.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BradMT, I know it probably is too small to read, but the last paragraph is about how they offer a range of hiking boot to minimize heat like breathable membranes and mesh- even though the picture is flip flips.

Rebecca, I meant my judgement of their insensitivity was going to show if I posted that ad.

I got the lesson the other way a few years later too, one of my other sisters-in-law, the middle girl, had her son (in his 30's and with two young children at home) walk in front of a train.  On my blog I wrote about losing my nephew, with honesty and sorrow but assuming no-one who knew him would read it, not a lot of my blog posts get more than a few readers and my Wyoming relatives in that town don't even own a computer.  But this is the computer age, and sure enough, my SIL went to the library to look for news articles online and found my blog and called to thank me. I thought of all the nasty angry thoughts I had almost written about alcohol and young moms and what led to that moment and was so glad I'd kept from adding to her pain with my judgements.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

On reflection, that ad may be dangerous, as well as stupid and insensitive (okay, yeah, I'm a lot more comfortable judging corporations :D).  I mean, I hope no one thinks that they can cope with desert heat just by wearing the "right" shoes.

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