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ponderosa 
Group: Members
Posts: 4025
Joined: Jul. 2003
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 10:55 pm |
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Why? The first I'd heard of this was an article in the local paper today, and now the article you linked. I haven't thought about it enough to have an opinion yet. What is your concern?
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The harder the toil, the sweeter the rest.
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Group: Members
Posts: 16346
Joined: Aug. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 7:33 am |
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The answer to "why" is easy......to save money.
Would it necessarily be a bad thing? I'm not sure.
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| Post Number: 4
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double cabin
Group: Members
Posts: 15549
Joined: Nov. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 8:27 am |
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The Bridger-Teton is already the Second biggest in the 48 states and IMO is not adequately managed. When I was young almost all roads got graded and most of the inventory of trails got cleared. Now, not nearly as much. 3 of the 4 greatest Rivers of the American West have their headwaters on the BTNF. I think they need more, not less supervision. IMO its the same National Security concern it was during WW II when it was seriously patroled.
This would also likely be the nail in the coffin for the Forest Headquarters here in Jackson which I certainly would not like. That's a fair number of jobs for this town. Yeah, that's a bit selfish, I know, but we are what we are.
When we're continuing to spend more than the next 10 nations combined on our National Defense I see the neglect of our public lands at home as a serious NAtional, not just Regional defeat. Call it political if you want to, I'll respectfully call it an appropriate rational prioty to do better, not worse, than we have when it comes to public lands management. When companies like Exxon-Mobil are making billions off of public lands can we not find a way to fund the management of them better?
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We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.
http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Group: Members
Posts: 16346
Joined: Aug. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 9:40 am |
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I'm sure the NFS would argue that consolidating supervisory functions would free more money for maintenance, etc. but I suspect instead of applying the savings to forest management, they would simply use it to prop up the teetering house of cards that is our federal budget.
I will refrain from commenting further, as that would clearly be in TPA territory.
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double cabin
Group: Members
Posts: 15549
Joined: Nov. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 10:02 am |
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I'm guilty of introducing politics but this being an "environmental" issue I say feel free to say what's on your mind LB.
Our budget can be reprioritized...if the citizenry demands it.
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We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.
http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
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| Post Number: 7
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Group: Members
Posts: 16346
Joined: Aug. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 2:25 pm |
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The citizenry is obviously more interested in subsidizing medicare, medicaid, student loans, mortgage tax breaks, social security, food stamps. the military, etc. etc. rather than conservation and preservation efforts.
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| Post Number: 8
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tarol
Well I never!
Group: Members
Posts: 10331
Joined: Mar. 2003
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 2:46 pm |
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If they are anything like the forests I've been on, most of their money goes towards employees salaries - and very little to "discretionary" costs.
So, they'll talk about how they can perhaps close down a building or two, and how that could save some money - but that's not where the real savings would come - it would come from layoffs. And most forests have already layed off and "reorganized" to the point that anymore and they wouldn't be able to function. We're at that point right now. Just trying to get the simplest of things done right now takes forever because there's no one left to do them...
But, yeah, this seems crazy - those two forests already were combined once upon a time, hence their hyphenated names.
I don't think the federal deficit will shrink noticeably at all even if we halved the number of national forests by combining all of them two by two. We need to address the big spenders - SS, Medicare, and Military - if we're going to make any noticeable difference.
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Got elevation? www.tarol.com
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SW Mtn backpacker
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Group: Members
Posts: 6742
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 3:07 pm |
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Not going to make a dent in the price of one F-22 went for $137,000,000 or $600,000,000 each last year, depending on whose accounting you use.
Might be good to leave public lands open at least for citizens to exercise, ... so our future pilots can actually fit into the cockpit. Heck, give everyone who visits a trail a tax break.
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Usually Southwest and then some.
In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
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Tigger
Woods Pouncer
Group: Members
Posts: 10624
Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2012, 3:10 pm |
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Save the alpacas...
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If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
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blue_sage
Group: Members
Posts: 1629
Joined: Jul. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 18 2012, 10:54 pm |
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Another move to take Forest out of the Service. More GS-13's staring at screens and populating data to meet admin quotas.
In a wired age, I have worked in industry where they elimanated the much of equivalent of the Forest Supervisor staff and many of the Regional functions and decentralized decision making and implementation down down to the local stations and offices. Wasn't pretty with a lot of demotions and career' prematurely plateaued, but we had jobs and got it done quicker, smarter, and cheaper.
Hell, they could move the the survivors to D.C. and fly surplus drones....it is as close to the forest as they will get at the new mega Supervisor's office.
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"Speak out, though your voice may shake"
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| Post Number: 12
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tarol
Well I never!
Group: Members
Posts: 10331
Joined: Mar. 2003
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Posted on: Nov. 19 2012, 8:55 am |
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Yeah, good point, forests lay off from the ground up - so likely all the field-going personnel (boots on the ground) would be reduced to the point of laughability while the GS-11's and above stay put.
But the forests can take care of themselves, right? If only people would do the right things in them.
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Got elevation? www.tarol.com
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| Post Number: 13
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big_load
Group: Members
Posts: 21952
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Nov. 19 2012, 11:15 pm |
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I would expect more closures and less local knowledge going into determining the least painful closures. I would also expect less maintenance, especially to less popular facilities and trails.
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