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Topic: What now?, (after the latest slaughter)< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 1:13 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Even with all the magic, it’s been a somber Christmas. The Newtown Connecticut killings of so many children have shaken my wife and me. What now?

Gun laws and controls should be improved/strengthened of course. I say this as an experienced gunfighter who owns guns. I’m not a hunter though.

We should commit to being better parents and partners and neighbors. It all starts at home, loving, supporting, teaching, and protecting. It continues into community, with engaging, supporting, and lifting up others. Every day.

We should train ourselves to maintain situational awareness. This isn’t being fearful or paranoid; it’s a basic life skill and is in opposition to walking around like a numbnuts.

We should make a commitment to acting effectively when action is needed. In a crisis/dangerous situation most people freeze and do nothing; a few people panic; a few people act effectively.

I just finished reading Carl Jung’s autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, wherein he says that evil has been loosed upon the world as a “determinant reality” and “how we can learn to live with it without terrible consequences cannot for the present be conceived.” And I’ve been reading the Book of Job, the book that asks, “Why do the righteous suffer?” Someone suggested St. Francis had a response, but not an answer to this question. I’ll take this as a response to Newtown and as part of the answer to the question of, “What now?”

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.


As anyone who knows me would know, I’ve got a way to go on this one, but nevertheless, Onward, into the unrepeatable gift of each precious day.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This should be in TPA. But....

The killer broke, I think I read, 47 laws doing what he did at that school. Not sure one more law will make much difference.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 1:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

24 of the 364 words in the OP are political in nature. The issue is more than political.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 3:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

buddero, you and I are not on the same side of the political aisle.  That's fine.  Your post above makes sense.  I am afraid that people will use this heinous crime as an excuse to entrench further in their dogma and think that slogans can help solve real world problems.  I reject that premise and agree that it is time to begin the hard work to fix our broken communities, down to the broken families and individuals in them.  As long as people of good intent from every side of our culture can commit to working for safety and dignity for all people, we CAN right this ship.

That said, it's easier to say than do.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 5:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Any change will have to come from each individual in our society in order to change our society to truly make the differences that are needed.  Wish I had the answers but unfortunately I am just jaded with my believes and how I was raised like so many of us are in this equation.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(City Man @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:38 pm)
QUOTE
 Wish I had the answers but unfortunately I am just jaded with my believes and how I was raised like so many of us are in this equation.

I think that this is where civic participation comes in.  As an example and with all due respect, it would be very easy for me to assume that you and I have little in common.  If we have little in common, it's easy to disregard you, your beliefs and your needs.  It's when we step outside our usual circle and spend time with others that we can begin to see that even though I may not have a lot in common with someone's beliefs, I may still like them as a person.  Starting to see them as people and not just their beliefs is where we begin I think.  Using those concepts that buddero has listed above seem a fine set of guidance in my opinion.

--------------
"Your number one philosophy for personal security should be a life long commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

The 3 Stupids Rule:

Don’t go to stupid places, with stupid people, to do stupid things.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 5:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Dec. 26 2012, 2:55 pm)
QUOTE

(City Man @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:38 pm)
QUOTE
 Wish I had the answers but unfortunately I am just jaded with my believes and how I was raised like so many of us are in this equation.

I think that this is where civic participation comes in.  As an example and with all due respect, it would be very easy for me to assume that you and I have little in common.  If we have little in common, it's easy to disregard you, your beliefs and your needs.  It's when we step outside our usual circle and spend time with others that we can begin to see that even though I may not have a lot in common with someone's beliefs, I may still like them as a person.  Starting to see them as people and not just their beliefs is where we begin I think.  Using those concepts that buddero has listed above seem a fine set of guidance in my opinion.

Which is why international travels can be such eye openers.  When you interact with folks firsthand -- it's no longer just "Asians" or "the French" or "The Arab World".


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 6:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
Which is why international travels can be such eye openers.  When you interact with folks firsthand -- it's no longer just "Asians" or "the French" or "The Arab World".

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch

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"Your number one philosophy for personal security should be a life long commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

The 3 Stupids Rule:

Don’t go to stupid places, with stupid people, to do stupid things.
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W Y O M I N G
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 6:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A couple notions I may have learned in life:
1) There are many things I can do nothing about. Period. Focus on the things I can.
2) Sometimes stepping back from a problem gives me clearer focus than always placing my nose up against it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Gun laws and controls should be improved/strengthened

As an "experienced gunfighter" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), you should already know there are well over 10,000 existing gun laws on the books. We don't need more, we need to enforce the ones we already have.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 6:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:01 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
Which is why international travels can be such eye openers.  When you interact with folks firsthand -- it's no longer just "Asians" or "the French" or "The Arab World".

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch

Hey! I like the Dutch. They're cool.


Just don't piss them off.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 6:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Dec. 26 2012, 3:01 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Dec. 26 2012, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
Which is why international travels can be such eye openers.  When you interact with folks firsthand -- it's no longer just "Asians" or "the French" or "The Arab World".

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch

What's wrong with the Dutch?  Some Dutch guy pissed you off?  Do tell.  :D

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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 7:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We take a hard look at education, parenting, media, society at large, and what we're doing to raise the next generation.

I'm for a holistic approach rather than just jumping on one side of the "problem" with the people committing these crimes.

A problem that serious can't just have a single-faceted solution.


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QUOTE
...there's just something about him.

Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 7:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Dec. 26 2012, 7:32 pm)
QUOTE
We take a hard look at education, parenting, media, society at large, and what we're doing to raise the next generation.

I'm for a holistic approach rather than just jumping on one side of the "problem" with the people committing these crimes.

A problem that serious can't just have a single-faceted solution.

Wow. I'm so voting for you. I'm not even sure I even understand all that and I agree with you. Well done.  :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 26 2012, 6:43 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Gun laws and controls should be improved/strengthened

As an "experienced gunfighter" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), you should already know there are well over 10,000 existing gun laws on the books. We don't need more, we need to enforce the ones we already have.

It means I've been in a number of gunfights. But I don't know anything about gun laws and I'm not into guns - except to keep mine clean.

The point of the post is that in my educated opinion, ramping up (and enforcing) gun laws is just part of a reasonable response to Newtown and other such atrocities.

So I'm going to keep working on the things I mentioned and I'm not going to quit.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 8:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
It means I've been in a number of gunfights.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and make a guess. Military firefights and battles aren't really relevant for the purposes of civilian access and use.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 11:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm going to get on as many internet forums as i can and tell everbody bout how much guns suck.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 11:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Dec. 26 2012, 8:14 pm)
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I'm going to get on as many internet forums as i can and tell everbody bout how much guns suck.

Lovely!  NG -- the Jehovah Witness of the anti gun faction.   That'll get the message far.  :;):

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 11:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 26 2012, 11:17 pm)
QUOTE

(no_granola @ Dec. 26 2012, 8:14 pm)
QUOTE
I'm going to get on as many internet forums as i can and tell everbody bout how much guns suck.

Lovely!  NG -- the Jehovah Witness of the anti gun faction.   That'll get the message far.  :;):

Dude, you can't spead that word door to door in my neighborhood.  You'd get shot mighty quick.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 11:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There has been a lot said here that makes good sense. Seeing one another as people and not our beliefs is a huge step.
There are way to many instances where people seemingly un-alike are truly not that different, at least in their intentions. I appreciate the OP's sentiments.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 1:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Dec. 26 2012, 8:22 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Dec. 26 2012, 11:17 pm)
QUOTE

(no_granola @ Dec. 26 2012, 8:14 pm)
QUOTE
I'm going to get on as many internet forums as i can and tell everbody bout how much guns suck.

Lovely!  NG -- the Jehovah Witness of the anti gun faction.   That'll get the message far.  :;):

Dude, you can't spead that word door to door in my neighborhood.  You'd get shot mighty quick.

OK, you have a point there...

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 2:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If everyone just lived by the golden rule these things wouldnt happen and there would be no reason for laws.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 6:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do you always drive the speed limit?

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 8:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

People with mental issues need to be locked away, just like in the old days.  If we restrict people's freedoms with laws designed to keep them safe, all of this goes away.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 9:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is a political post.  The word count is irrelevent.

Passing laws would have prevented this killing just like making forum rules would have prevented this post.  Those who feel that expressing their own will takes precedence over the rights of others will ignore the rules and do whatever they feel.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 10:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Dec. 27 2012, 9:47 am)
QUOTE
This is a political post.  The word count is irrelevent.

Passing laws would have prevented this killing just like making forum rules would have prevented this post.  Those who feel that expressing their own will takes precedence over the rights of others will ignore the rules and do whatever they feel.

Sigh. There is nothing political about being a better parent, being kinder to others, being more civil, reaching out in one's community, maintaining situational awareness, learning to act effectively in a dangerous situation, and so on.

The problem of community violence is not one dimensional; it's multidimensional and calls for individual and community effort - as well as political measures.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 10:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Dec. 27 2012, 6:47 am)
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...just like making forum rules would have prevented this post.

Just to clarify, there are no rules demanding any post go in any special forum! The political area is a suggested place for political debates, but certainly the initial message is much more generalized and is relevant, so I chose to leave it in the TR where more people might see it and reflect.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 11:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Dec. 27 2012, 8:31 am)
QUOTE
People with mental issues need to be locked away, just like in the old days.  If we restrict people's freedoms with laws designed to keep them safe, all of this goes away.

I do not know if you are serious or not but I kinda agree with you. The laws were changed and we don't institutionalize ppl with mental problems.
I have more than one relative that has some mental problems and some of the facts are scary. If a person is over 18 or whatever makes them considered an adult, they can legally make their own decisions. That includes weather they take their medicine or not and maybe ( I don't know) if they buy a gun or not. Some of these problems can be controled with proper medication, there are some that can't be. Yet this unstable person is allowed to make that decision.  We are not taking care of the mentaly ill in this country and sometimes those that care are not allowed. We need to look at the care and laws for these ppl and how it is looked at with guns.
I don't think they should all be locked up but something needs done.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 11:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think all teachers should be required to take self-defense classes and carry a concealed weapon.

Not only would this reduce the risk of school shootings in the future, but little Johnny would think twice before he dipped Susie's pigtails in the inkwell.
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(bp2go @ Dec. 27 2012, 10:59 am)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Dec. 27 2012, 6:47 am)
QUOTE
...just like making forum rules would have prevented this post.

Just to clarify, there are no rules demanding any post go in any special forum! The political area is a suggested place for political debates, but certainly the initial message is much more generalized and is relevant, so I chose to leave it in the TR where more people might see it and reflect.

Good call, Steve.

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