SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 512345>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: When good people make bad choices, And the consequences are disastrous< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Echo Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7172
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:25 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One of the people I most love working with is a young man, only 34. He is dean of students at the Jr high and not only disciplines with kindness, he is willing to hug a special ed student or stop by a students home with food or clothing. His wife is a high school math teacher on leave for a year with a new baby born last summer. Both my boys had her and loved her class and she Inspired my sons girlfriend to be a math teacher. In short, they are a couple who have done an amazing amount of good for the youth in this community.

But sometimes things turn on a dime and life breaks and can't be fixed. He was At an administrators Christmas party the Friday before Christmas and had a few drinks, enough that a couple people asked if they could drive him home but he wanted to get back to his baby and said he was fine. On a straight stretch his car wandered into the other lane and did a head on with a car driven by a 67 year old grandpa who had just dropped off gifts as his grandkids. Both men had to be cut out of shattered vehicles and the 67 year old was dead. My young friend is in critical condition and was taken to the local hospital but flown somewhere bigger.

It's tragic, stupid, sad beyond understanding. I have no idea what will happen if he recovers. I don't think he'll ever do his job again. A drunken man slaughter charge, prison time? No idea what will happen in those terms. Some people here who would normally be unforgiving, he was driving drunk, shoot him, are more willing to forgive this time but then there is the victims family, I don't know them but if it was my Dad I'd be pretty unforgiving I am sure.

Any ideas how similar cases have resolved?


--------------
If Light is in your heart, you will find your way Home. (Rumi)

The miracle is not to fly in the air, or to walk on the water, but to walk on the earth.  Chinese proverb

http://echo-echosvoice.blogspot.com/

http://duffybarkley.blogspot.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12384
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My best guess, based on current laws, would be 3 yrs in custody, divorce, new career.  Not many families stay together over this sort of thing.  I am fairly certain no educational system will hire him with a felony conviction.

If the courts are lenient, he will get probation, maybe a community service tab, but I would still expect a change of career, and the strain will break up the marriage.

Not good news at all.  However, others realized his impairment, yet failed to take his keys or call the cops.  Enough blame to go around at that gathering.  I wonder how those folks are taking it?  There is some guilt when a person realizes they had the power to prevent this tragedy.


--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6286
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What a sad and tragic story, but one that seems to occur over and over.

Mostly I feel so sad for his wife and child whose lives have been shattered by his drunken decision.  Too bad someone didn't take away his car keys.

Makes you wish that all cars had ignition locks that test alcohol in the breath of the driver.

If he recovers he will undoubtedly be prosecuted, as he should be.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
Deborah Search for posts by this member.
Deborah - 18 months
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16041
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You are right Vince, I can see some serious lawsuits coming from the family of the victim.    The owner of the home, where the party was held, will likely be named as well as any others who were at the party when he left drunk.  Of course he might not even survive, but if he does, yes jail time is in order.  I suspect vehicular homicide could be charged.

It was an incredibly stupid thing to do.


--------------
“What we need is production by the masses, not mass-production”  Gandhi

“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn”  David Russell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 5
Three Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1029
Joined: Dec. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 12:34 pm)
QUOTE
My best guess, based on current laws, would be 3 yrs in custody, divorce, new career.  Not many families stay together over this sort of thing.  I am fairly certain no educational system will hire him with a felony conviction.

If the courts are lenient, he will get probation, maybe a community service tab, but I would still expect a change of career, and the strain will break up the marriage.

Not good news at all.  However, others realized his impairment, yet failed to take his keys or call the cops.  Enough blame to go around at that gathering.  I wonder how those folks are taking it?  There is some guilt when a person realizes they had the power to prevent this tragedy.

We all do terribly wrong things at times in our lives.   DUI is not one of my sins, I have enough others, but in one way or another, most all of us can say "there but for the grace of God go I"

Ol Zeke has a point about the responsibilty of us all to look after each other.

His friends have a choice.  They can fade into the woodwork or stand with him in love.   Not to lessen the wrong or even the penalties to come but to comfort all involved including this young man and his family.

I can't argue with the statistics Ol Zeke points to on divorce but it doesn't have to be that way.  Encouraging this couple to stay together is probably one of the best ways to help but it will take long term commitment of friends.

My God is the God of second chances.

Regards,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16321
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 12:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 10:34 am)
QUOTE
. . . Not good news at all.  However, others realized his impairment, yet failed to take his keys or call the cops.  Enough blame to go around at that gathering. . .

Indeed there is !!

--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 7
SW Mtn backpacker Search for posts by this member.
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7105
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 1:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 10:34 am)
QUOTE
.. I am fairly certain no educational system will hire him with a felony conviction...

Not necessarily, having been on educational hiring committees in the educator-shortage days, depending on the felony (any felony dealing with kids of course is an automatically no-no) but it will be tougher if these economic conditions persist.


--------------
Usually Southwest and then some.

In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42789
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

He, at least, has the minor ( and in no way mitigating) excuse that his judgement was impaired but all those others who recognized his lack of judgenent and still stood by and let him go out and kill?

Now there's a group without the slightest excuse.

Jail is a possibility but even drunk murder isn't ofen taken that seriously. For all his enablers from that party? A lot of community service responding to drunk driving auto crashes to sweep up the blood  little broken toys and all the rest.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
OregonNomad Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 1:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Man, that's so sad.  As someone said, lots of blame to go around.  How many lives are going to be damaged or ruined as a result of the events of this one night?

A long time ago I resolved to never have more than 2 drinks at any party (assuming I choose to partake at all) and to space them out an hour apart with some food thrown in, and to wait an hour after the last drink before getting behind the wheel.

Any party or get together I have, the strongest alcohol available is beer--albeit GOOD beer (i.e. microbrew), and I keep an eye on how many the guests consume.  Yeah, that means I don't throw BIG parties.

And I'm not afraid to take someone's keys and make them get a ride home.  I'll even pay for a cab if necessary.

How many tragedies could be avoided by the use of some forethought?


--------------
Servant of two house cats
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Echo Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7172
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 2:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, I have no idea how this will end but obviously it will have long lasting effects. I like the idea that those who were at the party could help support the wife and baby some and I know the other teachers here have been excellent at supporting other families with long term issues like cancer so I see hope of that. It feels like the school district, without taking legal responsability should still do something for the 67 year old mans family too. It's a really small community so a lot of people will have known both people involved.

--------------
If Light is in your heart, you will find your way Home. (Rumi)

The miracle is not to fly in the air, or to walk on the water, but to walk on the earth.  Chinese proverb

http://echo-echosvoice.blogspot.com/

http://duffybarkley.blogspot.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
mbear Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 2:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't have any sympathy. If I did something that stupid I'd probably hope for death, as I could never live with killing another person because I was too arrogant to ignore the enormous dangers of drinking when I knew I had to make a drive back home. To hell with the driver; I hate this general attitude that a few drinks are no big deal when there is so much evidence to the contrary. I hope he gets the book thrown at him if he survives. Anyone who has been drunk at least once in his life knows his motor skills and responsiveness goes to hell.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
no_granola Search for posts by this member.
minor deity
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 13100
Joined: Dec. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 2:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There is only one person to blame.  I feel sorry for him and the friends and family of the man that died.

--------------
I never imagined that being obnoxious would get me where I am today.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Lorax Search for posts by this member.
Cultured hillbilly swine
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4945
Joined: Dec. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 3:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"On a straight stretch his car wandered into the other lane and did a head on with a car driven by a 67 year old grandpa"

Yeah....let's blame the car.

"I don't think he'll ever do his job again. A drunken man slaughter charge, prison time? "

Hopefully both.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
buddero Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1045
Joined: Jan. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 4:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Fortune changes like the swish of a horse's tail."

Sad all the way around.

Culturally we're waaaay to casual about our (cultural) drug of choice. It's a strong and very often deadly drug though. Alcohol kills around 70,000 people/year in the US, maims many more (the ongoing effects of alcohol-fueled MVA injuries are far greater than most people imagine), is directly linked to countless rapes among college students yearly, has long-term (often lifelong) effects on children of alcoholics, so on and so forth.

"Drinks! Drinks for my friends!"


--------------
Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty
If your cup is full, may it be again

Journal and links to refugees, backpacking, travel in Asia, photos, honky-tonk angels, other beautiful things...
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 15
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25454
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 4:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What a waste of two lives -- one literally and the other figuratively.

But if we are serious at all about "freedom-responsibility" -- then we all must be made to be accountable for our choices and actions.  Especially something this serious.

No good ending whatsoever.  But let's not ruin the situation even more with a travesty of justice!  One family lost a husband / father / grandfather.  A mere probation plus a fine would be a travesty of justice.


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
BCPete1 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 605
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 4:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(mbear @ Dec. 29 2012, 2:57 pm)
QUOTE
I don't have any sympathy. If I did something that stupid I'd probably hope for death, as I could never live with killing another person because I was too arrogant to ignore the enormous dangers of drinking when I knew I had to make a drive back home. To hell with the driver; I hate this general attitude that a few drinks are no big deal when there is so much evidence to the contrary. I hope he gets the book thrown at him if he survives. Anyone who has been drunk at least once in his life knows his motor skills and responsiveness goes to hell.

+1

Frankly, I have a hard time not smiling when I hear of a single vehicle fatal where the drunk driver was the only occupant - all that makes me think is that someone innocent was saved. Maybe it takes being a victim of a hit & run drunk driver to be this cold, but it's the only attitude I can muster towards drunk drivers - even through it's been over two decades for me. It's just not a forgiveable crime.


--------------
Backpacking isn't a hobby ... it's a lifestyle.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 17
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16321
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 5:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I still find it just pathetic that a school administrators' Christmas party feels some need to allow alcoholic beverages for a good time. I may be completely alone in this, but hell if I'd want any of those people teaching my kids!

--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 18
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25454
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 5:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Dec. 29 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE
I still find it just pathetic that a school administrators' Christmas party feels some need to allow alcoholic beverages for a good time. I may be completely alone in this, but hell if I'd want any of those people teaching my kids!

No singular right answer, Travis, but just stating my own opinion -- alcohol can be a very good thing.  Red wines are good for one's health.  And alcohol of any kind can help relax everyone.

To me, moderation -- and using personal judgment and good sense -- are much preferable to closing up the bar and taking away the punch bowl for everyone.

But as I stated above, freedom and responsibility must go hand in hand.  That's where both education and punishment come in.


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Lorax Search for posts by this member.
Cultured hillbilly swine
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4945
Joined: Dec. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 5:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Dec. 29 2012, 5:06 pm)
QUOTE
I still find it just pathetic that a school administrators' Christmas party feels some need to allow alcoholic beverages for a good time. I may be completely alone in this, but hell if I'd want any of those people teaching my kids!

Teachers are no different than anyone else. There's no "higher standard" there. Just regular people.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10633
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
no_granola Search for posts by this member.
minor deity
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 13100
Joined: Dec. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm)
QUOTE
There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

Well said, sir.

--------------
I never imagined that being obnoxious would get me where I am today.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
Three Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1029
Joined: Dec. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm)
QUOTE
There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

Agreed.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
nogods Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6219
Joined: Sep. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 8:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's the 21st century.  There is no reason for anyone to ingest alcohol and then drive a  car.  

I can emphasize with the concern of the friends and family of this man.  No one likes to see a friend or family member go through what he is going to go through.

But I don't have to condemn the man to condemn the act.  And I don't have to excuse the behavior or accept it.  

Personally I don't think jail does much good in such situations.  The victims and the rest of society can be better served by this man by an alternative sentence rather than incarcerating him.  The alternative sentence can be sever enough to dissuade others from engaging in such behavior.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
Deborah Search for posts by this member.
Deborah - 18 months
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16041
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 9:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Dec. 29 2012, 5:09 pm)
QUOTE
There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

I agree that it is sad.  And yes, most of us have done things during moments of stupidity that we survived.

However, that does not negate the fact that what he did was stupid.  As the story was told people tried to stop him from driving and he refused their help.  Should someone have taken his keys forcefully?  Maybe so.  But a room full of people let him go and now they also carry a piece of the guilt in this sad tale.


--------------
“What we need is production by the masses, not mass-production”  Gandhi

“The hardest thing in life is to know which bridge to cross and which to burn”  David Russell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 25
Echo Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7172
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 5:40 pm)
QUOTE
It's the 21st century.  There is no reason for anyone to ingest alcohol and then drive a  car.  

I can emphasize with the concern of the friends and family of this man.  No one likes to see a friend or family member go through what he is going to go through.

But I don't have to condemn the man to condemn the act.  And I don't have to excuse the behavior or accept it.  

Personally I don't think jail does much good in such situations.  The victims and the rest of society can be better served by this man by an alternative sentence rather than incarcerating him.  The alternative sentence can be sever enough to dissuade others from engaging in such behavior.

Maybe what you said resonates with me more than anything else said here today. I don't drink, never have but I have my own obsessions/addictions and I can't imagine allowing one of them to let me make a choice that has been so convincingly proven deadly. But taking this man from his baby and students and putting him in jail does nothing for the victim. There needs to be consequences and examples and I am so glad I won't be one who decides what they will be. It isthat strange feeling like when you drop and shatter something valuable and for a moment you can't believe it is forever altered. You can still see the old normal so clearly in your mind that how can it be so different now?

--------------
If Light is in your heart, you will find your way Home. (Rumi)

The miracle is not to fly in the air, or to walk on the water, but to walk on the earth.  Chinese proverb

http://echo-echosvoice.blogspot.com/

http://duffybarkley.blogspot.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
RumiDude Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 14328
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Dec. 29 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE
I still find it just pathetic that a school administrators' Christmas party feels some need to allow alcoholic beverages for a good time. I may be completely alone in this, but hell if I'd want any of those people teaching my kids!

In my opinion, there should be no drinking unless they agree not to drive afterwards ... no alchohol period.  If you consume alchohol, then you have to surrender your car keys.

Rumi


--------------
“This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all.”
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25454
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:29 pm)
QUOTE

(TravisNWood @ Dec. 29 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE
I still find it just pathetic that a school administrators' Christmas party feels some need to allow alcoholic beverages for a good time. I may be completely alone in this, but hell if I'd want any of those people teaching my kids!

In my opinion, there should be no drinking unless they agree not to drive afterwards ... no alchohol period.  If you consume alchohol, then you have to surrender your car keys.

Rumi

Rumi:

Are you applying that only to school administrators/teachers -- or to everyone, everywhere?


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
mbear Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 11:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm)
QUOTE
There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

We all make mistakes, but I'd like to think most of us don't go around committing criminal acts that put others' lives in danger. Getting drunk and then jumping behind the wheel of a 5000 pound vehicle that can end a life in a second is a pretty sleazy thing to do. I'd have sympathy if the guy was a young and dumb 16 year-old kid, but at 34 he should know when he's not ok to drive.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
Hiker01 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1117
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 11:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I tell my fourteen year old that her choices have consequences. He made the decision to get behind the wheel when he shouldn't have.  It's very sad for both families however.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
BCPete1 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 605
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 12:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm)
QUOTE
There seems to be a bit of self-rightousness in these threads. Not that I am condoning his behavior in any way.  It was inexcusable.  But we all make tragic mistakes in our lives that could easily lead to tragedy. Who amon us hasn't been spared terrible consequences as a result of their actions simpley because of sheer dumb luck? One of the great injuustices of life is that we can do everything right for years and years, time and time again, and then just one lapse of judgment changes everything, often tragically, as was the case with your friend. All one can say is that it is so very very sad.

I'm afraid to get too far into this discussion because it should go to TPA then, but ...

Respectfully, I really can't agree with what you said.

Self-rightousness? My somewhat 'right wing' opinion is earned ... back in 1988 I was nailed by a drunk doing about 50mph on a downtown city street - driving an F350 with a nice big winch on the front. I was lucky that I saw him from far enough away that I managed to almost stop my vehicle before he nailed us head-on. Even then, my compact truck (Chevy S10) was pushed back about 25 feet from the impact. I escaped with some quality bruises in a lot of places (especially from the seat belt), and really sore hands (the steering wheel folded into the dash - with my knuckles in the way). Oh yeah, the guy was a runner so the cops had to track him down with dogs. The crazy thing of it was that this guy was lucky ... if he would have done what he did just 10 minutes later, he would have plowed into a line of people waiting on the sidewalk for a movie to start - he jumped the curb onto a sidewalk beside a theater, before somehow over-correcting and coming back onto the road to hit me. So yes, I'm very self righteous about drunk driving. Good grief, I can't imagine how militant my views would be if I had a family member or friend killed by a drunk driver.

This man (or any drunk driver) is guilty of a pre-meditated crime ... which is exactly what drunk driving is. Do you honestly believe in this day & age (with all the awareness that drunk driving has) that it's acceptable for any reasonable intelligent person to choose to drive drunk, and only be guilty of a 'one lapse in judgement'?

This case is sad, no way one can say it isn't - along with all the other drunk driving cases that are equally tragic. But the really sad part of all this is that the laws are still not strong enough to stop this criminal behaviour in 'good' people. This guy (and any other intelligent person who chooses to drive drunk) should be scared sh*tless about the reprocussions of driving drunk - that it doesn't even enter their mind to do so. You're still going to have idiots driving drunk, but I'd bet money this particular guy wouldn't have made the decision he did if there was a zero tolerance towards alcohol and driving (along with some steep penalties if you even blow a .02).

Getting off my pulpit now.


--------------
Backpacking isn't a hobby ... it's a lifestyle.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
127 replies since Dec. 29 2012, 12:25 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 512345>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply When good people make bad choices
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions