|
|
| Post Number: 1
|
Walkinman 
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
 |
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm |
|
   |
Story here.
Lance Armstrong, who this fall was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles for doping and barred for life from competing in all Olympic sports, has told associates and antidoping officials that he is considering publicly admitting that he used banned performance-enhancing drugs and blood transfusions during his cycling career, according to several people with direct knowledge of the situation. He would do this, the people said, because he wants to persuade antidoping officials to restore his eligibility so he can resume his athletic career.
If he's simply waiting to get a 'pass' from the Feds, he's even more sack less than I imagined. Lance viciously attacked, and in some cases ended the career, of anyone who tried to tell the truth about this stuff. He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.
Cheers
Carl
ETA .. The bi line in the heading should read .... "'Cept for that lying to a Grand Jury part" - this damn iPad sucks to type on.
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 2
|
TravisNWood
W Y O M I N G
Group: Members
Posts: 15024
Joined: Apr. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:19 pm |
|
 |
For Lance I have to ask: What is the smart thing to do? What is the honest thing to do?
Either way it seems he passed the correct answer a long time ago, and didn't take it.
--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness Maps — Rocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 3
|
Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 24134
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:25 pm |
|
|
Per the linked article, "He would do this ... because he wants to persuade antidoping officials to restore his eligibility so he can resume his athletic career.".
Meaning what? He thinks he can restart the cash cow by saying "hey, sorry I lied"? I hope he confesses and faces justice. That would be a good example for all.
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 4
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39804
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:50 pm |
|
|
Confessing is all anyone else has had to do for a slap on the wrist or less
But really: Lance Who?
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 5
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:56 pm |
|
|
Why does anyone care? This is part of modern athletic competitions. So let them take their drugs and entertain us.
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 6
|
Walkinman
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:08 pm |
|
|
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 1:50 pm)
QUOTE Confessing is all anyone else has had to do for a slap on the wrist or less
But really: Lance Who?
Unless your name is, say, Marion Jones.
How about the British taboid that paid Lance nearly 1/2 a million big ones in a settlement over allegations that he doped? There's an awful lot of people who paid an awful lot of money in the face of Lance' b-s, and they have every right to have (a) that paid back, and (b) Lance go to prison.
So to no_granola, I guess that would be part of the answer to "who cares?".
As for "part of modern athletic competitions" .. well, it's also against the rules of most modern athletic competitions. And if someone is busted for breaking the rules, they ought at least be responsible enough to acknowledge it, and apologize to the countless people they cheated and hurt.
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 7
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:18 pm |
|
|
The rules need to change and we need to stop wasting government funds on this stuff. They're entertainers so let them entertain.
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 8
|
|
|
| Post Number: 9
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:34 pm |
|
|
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison. I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated. Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.
He didn't cheat. It's just better living through chemistry.
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 10
|
eyebp
Moderator
Group: Members
Posts: 9639
Joined: Dec. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:38 pm |
|
|
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:34 pm)
QUOTE
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison. I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated. Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports. He didn't cheat. It's just better living through chemistry.
Trust me I'm aware. 
--------------
Of all the ridiculous things to micromanage. Even for a lunatic megalomaniac.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 11
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39804
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:41 pm |
|
|
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
QUOTE
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison. I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated. Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports. He didn't cheat. It's just better living through chemistry.
If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals?
Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 12
|
|
|
| Post Number: 13
|
Walkinman
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:43 pm |
|
|
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:41 pm)
QUOTE
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
QUOTE
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison. I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated. Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports. He didn't cheat. It's just better living through chemistry. If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals? Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder.
I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 14
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39804
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:45 pm |
|
|
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:43 pm)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:41 pm)
QUOTE
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
QUOTE
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison. I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated. Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports. He didn't cheat. It's just better living through chemistry. If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals? Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder. I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.
And I didn't say it was.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 15
|
eyebp
Moderator
Group: Members
Posts: 9639
Joined: Dec. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:52 pm |
|
|
I'm not really getting the analogy.
--------------
Of all the ridiculous things to micromanage. Even for a lunatic megalomaniac.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 16
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:53 pm |
|
|
The analogy isn't the only thing you're not getting these days . . .
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 17
|
Walkinman
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:55 pm |
|
|
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:45 pm)
QUOTE
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:43 pm)
QUOTE
I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.
And I didn't say it was.
No - but the the comparison hinges on that, which is a very considerable difference.
As for it being arbitrary; one could take that argument anywhere. Look at the lanes in a track race. Or the distance? or the lane draws. Rules are defined for various reasons. The point is that the athletes KNOW what the rules are, and when they go to the lengths that Lance apparently went to to hide how stridently he broke them, there's a problem. I doubt he threatened anyone with kicking them off the team, or loss of sponsorship, etc, if they mentioned that Lance had had chemo. I doubt Lance sued any media organization for hundreds of thousands of dollars because they wrote about him having had chemo.
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 18
|
|
|
| Post Number: 19
|
|
|
| Post Number: 20
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:01 pm |
|
|
(texasbb @ Jan. 05 2013, 7:32 pm)
QUOTE
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:56 pm)
QUOTE Why does anyone care? This is part of modern athletic competitions. So let them take their drugs and entertain us. Lots of reasons to care. Most of us would like to continue encouraging our kids to engage sports for health and character building reasons. If we let the top become all out chemical warfare, it's only a matter of time before the battle creeps back to the pee-wee leagues. It's a nightmare public health scenario at the very least.
Because Junior High players aren't already taking steroids and haven't been for the past 50 years? You're arriving a little bit too late to save the children . . . they're already on the TV. Do you honestly believe that those guys all got that big naturally, just by putting in a bit of time in the weight room?
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 21
|
ndwoods
Group: Members
Posts: 448
Joined: Feb. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm |
|
|
I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...
--------------
http://ndeewoods.blogspot.com/ and Wilder Ranch State Park
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 22
|
eyebp
Moderator
Group: Members
Posts: 9639
Joined: Dec. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:32 pm |
|
|
(texasbb @ Jan. 05 2013, 7:32 pm)
QUOTE
(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:56 pm)
QUOTE Why does anyone care? This is part of modern athletic competitions. So let them take their drugs and entertain us. Lots of reasons to care. Most of us would like to continue encouraging our kids to engage sports for health and character building reasons. If we let the top become all out chemical warfare, it's only a matter of time before the battle creeps back to the pee-wee leagues. It's a nightmare public health scenario at the very least.
Its an American kicking ass on French soil thing for me. Just saying.
--------------
Of all the ridiculous things to micromanage. Even for a lunatic megalomaniac.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 23
|
|
|
| Post Number: 24
|
no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12660
Joined: Dec. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:41 pm |
|
|
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:34 pm)
QUOTE
(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
QUOTE I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore... I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.
Now you're talking! If you want examples for your kids and grandkids, set the bar yourself.
I like that.
--------------
The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 25
|
Walkinman
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:44 pm |
|
|
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 4:34 pm)
QUOTE
(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
QUOTE I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore... I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.
You mean, like the Founding Fathers? Or Jesus?
We live in a culture where it's impossible to separate those who become famous from some kind of role model for kids; because kids seek, and are taught to seek, the same kind of success that folks like Lance achieve.
I'm sure when you were a boy you wanted, badly, to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example. 
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 26
|
Walkinman
A rainbow
Group: Members
Posts: 6634
Joined: Nov. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:48 pm |
|
|
no_granola
That's almost silly in its simplicity. Children are taught all kinds of things about our culture; the study of history is the study of other people's lives. There's no way at all to remove that from education. The stories of other people is intrinsic to learning about ourselves.
My parents "set the bar" themselves, for me, but that doesn't negate the influence of countless other adults in my life; many of whom I never met, or could meet, but I knew about them, what they did and their achievements. That's a good thing. We should ALL have role models beyond our immediate parents/families.
If you think you can set a bar of 7 Tour de France victories, have at it.
--------------
Guided Alaska backpacking and hiking trips
"What good is a used up world and how can it be worth having?" -- Sting, All This Time.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 27
|
eyebp
Moderator
Group: Members
Posts: 9639
Joined: Dec. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:23 pm |
|
|
(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:44 pm)
QUOTE
(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 4:34 pm)
QUOTE
(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
QUOTE I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore... I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts. You mean, like the Founding Fathers? Or Jesus? We live in a culture where it's impossible to separate those who become famous from some kind of role model for kids; because kids seek, and are taught to seek, the same kind of success that folks like Lance achieve. I'm sure when you were a boy you wanted, badly, to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example.
First of all, our founding fathers are different, eh. And no. Not like them. (Edit: I was thinking you lived in Canada but remembered you are in Alaska)
Jesus? We know Jesus.
It can be hard and I don't claim to do a perfect job of it but I think its possible to separate famous and role model. I really do believe that. I think we need to redefine role model. I bet if you asked my son who his role model was he would say yours truly.
--------------
Of all the ridiculous things to micromanage. Even for a lunatic megalomaniac.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 28
|
|
|
| Post Number: 29
|
|
|
| Post Number: 30
|
eyebp
Moderator
Group: Members
Posts: 9639
Joined: Dec. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:31 pm |
|
|
Edit...forget the "eh"
--------------
Of all the ridiculous things to micromanage. Even for a lunatic megalomaniac.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
