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Topic: Lance toying with an admission, Cept for that lying to a Grand Jury part< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Story here.

Lance Armstrong, who this fall was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles for doping and barred for life from competing in all Olympic sports, has told associates and antidoping officials that he is considering publicly admitting that he used banned performance-enhancing drugs and blood transfusions during his cycling career, according to several people with direct knowledge of the situation. He would do this, the people said, because he wants to persuade antidoping officials to restore his eligibility so he can resume his athletic career.

If he's simply waiting to get a 'pass' from the Feds, he's even more sack less than I imagined. Lance viciously attacked, and in some cases ended the career, of anyone who tried to tell the truth about this stuff. He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

Cheers

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ETA .. The bi line in the heading should read .... "'Cept for that lying to a Grand Jury part" - this damn iPad sucks to type on.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For Lance I have to ask: What is the smart thing to do? What is the honest thing to do?

Either way it seems he passed the correct answer a long time ago, and didn't take it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Per the linked article, "He would do this ... because he wants to persuade antidoping officials to restore his eligibility so he can resume his athletic career.".

Meaning what?  He thinks he can restart the cash cow by saying "hey, sorry I lied"?   I hope he confesses and faces justice. That would be a good example for all.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Confessing is all anyone else has had to do for a slap on the wrist or less

But really: Lance Who?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 5:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why does anyone care?  This is part of modern athletic competitions.  So let them take their drugs and entertain us.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 1:50 pm)
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Confessing is all anyone else has had to do for a slap on the wrist or less

But really: Lance Who?

Unless your name is, say, Marion Jones.

How about the British taboid that paid Lance nearly 1/2 a million big ones in a settlement over allegations that he doped? There's an awful lot of people who paid an awful lot of money in the face of Lance' b-s, and they have every right to have (a) that paid back, and (b) Lance go to prison.

So to no_granola, I guess that would be part of the answer to "who cares?".

As for "part of modern athletic competitions" .. well, it's also against the rules of most modern athletic competitions. And if someone is busted for breaking the rules, they ought at least be responsible enough to acknowledge it, and apologize to the countless people they cheated and hurt.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The rules need to change and we need to stop wasting government funds on this stuff.  They're entertainers so let them entertain.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
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He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE

(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE
He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.

He didn't cheat.  It's just better living through chemistry.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:34 pm)
QUOTE

(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE

(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE
He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.

He didn't cheat.  It's just better living through chemistry.

Trust me I'm aware.   :O

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
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(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
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(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE
He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.

He didn't cheat.  It's just better living through chemistry.

If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals?

Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:18 pm)
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The rules need to change and we need to stop wasting government funds on this stuff.  They're entertainers so let them entertain.

That's an entirely separate argument; sports ARE competitions. And competitions only actually work if there exist some boundaries and parameters; without them, it's hardly a competition. And, in his sport, doping is outside of the boundaries. I doubt any of his fellow competitors who chose to compete cleanly see Lance's scam as very entertaining at all.

If be broke the rules, and it seems reasonable to conclude that  he did, then he cheated.

The fact that you might like the guy doesn't change that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:41 pm)
QUOTE

(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
QUOTE

(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE

(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE
He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.

He didn't cheat.  It's just better living through chemistry.

If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals?

Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder.

I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:43 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:41 pm)
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(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:34 pm)
QUOTE

(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:30 pm)
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(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 5:00 pm)
QUOTE
He's guilty, IMO, of fraud to the tune of the over 100 million dollars he's been valued at. If he wasn't a favorite sports star of so many people he'd be in prison.

I just really want him to be innocent. I'm not a huge cycling fan but I have admired him for so long that it is a lot to handle that he may have cheated.

Also, I agree with No_Gran. In all sports.

He didn't cheat.  It's just better living through chemistry.

If true he did violate the race rules. But beyond that arbitrary line what was the difference between performance pharmaceuticals and his anti-cancer phsrmaceuticals?

Nothing I can see. Absent the chemo his race performance would have been zero as he would have been dead. Should only people who refrain from all medical aid participate in sports? It would be more "natural", but way sadder.

I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.

And I didn't say it was.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm not really getting the analogy.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The analogy isn't the only thing you're not getting these days . . .

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 6:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:45 pm)
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(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 3:43 pm)
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I'm pretty sure chemo isn't against the rules.

And I didn't say it was.

No - but the the comparison hinges on that, which is a very considerable difference.

As for it being arbitrary; one could take that argument anywhere. Look at the lanes in a track race. Or the distance? or the lane draws. Rules are defined for various reasons. The point is that the athletes KNOW what the rules are, and when they go to the lengths that Lance apparently went to to hide how stridently he broke them, there's a problem. I doubt he threatened anyone with kicking them off the team, or loss of sponsorship, etc, if they mentioned that Lance had had chemo. I doubt Lance sued any media organization for hundreds of thousands of dollars because they wrote about him having had chemo.


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(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 6:53 pm)
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The analogy isn't the only thing you're not getting these days . . .

Sad but true.  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 7:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:56 pm)
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Why does anyone care?  This is part of modern athletic competitions.  So let them take their drugs and entertain us.

Lots of reasons to care.  Most of us would like to continue encouraging our kids to engage sports for health and character building reasons.  If we let the top become all out chemical warfare, it's only a matter of time before the battle creeps back to the pee-wee leagues.  It's a nightmare public health scenario at the very least.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(texasbb @ Jan. 05 2013, 7:32 pm)
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(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:56 pm)
QUOTE
Why does anyone care?  This is part of modern athletic competitions.  So let them take their drugs and entertain us.

Lots of reasons to care.  Most of us would like to continue encouraging our kids to engage sports for health and character building reasons.  If we let the top become all out chemical warfare, it's only a matter of time before the battle creeps back to the pee-wee leagues.  It's a nightmare public health scenario at the very least.

Because Junior High players aren't already taking steroids and haven't been for the past 50 years?  You're arriving a little bit too late to save the children . . . they're already on the TV.  Do you honestly believe that those guys all got that big naturally, just by putting in a bit of time in the weight room?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(texasbb @ Jan. 05 2013, 7:32 pm)
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(no_granola @ Jan. 05 2013, 2:56 pm)
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Why does anyone care?  This is part of modern athletic competitions.  So let them take their drugs and entertain us.

Lots of reasons to care.  Most of us would like to continue encouraging our kids to engage sports for health and character building reasons.  If we let the top become all out chemical warfare, it's only a matter of time before the battle creeps back to the pee-wee leagues.  It's a nightmare public health scenario at the very least.

Its an American kicking ass on French soil thing for me. Just saying.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
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I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...

I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:34 pm)
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(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
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I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...

I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.

Now you're talking!  If you want examples for your kids and grandkids, set the bar yourself.

I like that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 4:34 pm)
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(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
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I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...

I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.

You mean, like the Founding Fathers? Or Jesus?

We live in a culture where it's impossible to separate those who become famous from some kind of role model for kids; because kids seek, and are taught to seek, the same kind of success that folks like Lance achieve.

I'm sure when you were a boy you wanted, badly, to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example.  :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

no_granola

That's almost silly in its simplicity. Children are taught all kinds of things about our culture; the study of history is the study of other people's lives. There's no way at all to remove that from education. The stories of other people is intrinsic to learning about ourselves.

My parents "set the bar" themselves, for me, but that doesn't negate the influence of countless other adults in my life; many of whom I never met, or could meet, but I knew about them, what they did and their achievements. That's a good thing. We should ALL have role models beyond our immediate parents/families.

If you think you can set a bar of 7 Tour de France victories, have at it. :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:44 pm)
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(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 4:34 pm)
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(ndwoods @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:30 pm)
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I care. They are examples for my kids and grandkids...I wouldn't want them thinking the corner doper or drug dealer is cool either. .And I don't think his wins are worth spit anymore...

I respect that but maybe its time to teach our kids to not have adults they don't even know as examples and guideposts.

You mean, like the Founding Fathers? Or Jesus?

We live in a culture where it's impossible to separate those who become famous from some kind of role model for kids; because kids seek, and are taught to seek, the same kind of success that folks like Lance achieve.

I'm sure when you were a boy you wanted, badly, to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example.  :)

First of all, our founding fathers are different, eh. And no. Not like them. (Edit: I was thinking you lived in Canada but remembered you are in Alaska)
Jesus? We know Jesus.   :)

It can be hard and I don't claim to do a perfect job of it but I think its possible to separate famous and role model. I really do believe that. I think we need to redefine role model. I bet if you asked my son who his role model was he would say yours truly.


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(Walkinman @ Jan. 05 2013, 8:44 pm)
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I'm sure when you were a boy you wanted, badly, to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, for example.  :)

That is one exception and I still want to be SRV.  :D

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(eyebp @ Jan. 05 2013, 9:23 pm)
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I bet if you asked my son who his role model was he would say yours truly.

It just struck me what I said. I have striven to be that kind of dad but I never really consciously thought about it.

Very cool. Best part is I feel certain its true.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Edit...forget the "eh"

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