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hikerjer 
Group: Members
Posts: 9129
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:30 pm |
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Can anyone suggest an easy and accurate means by which to determine the volume of a pack. I know the basic forumula for volume of course, (that's not rocket science) but with all the nooks, separate pockets, crannies, irregular contours, etc. of a pack, I don't think I can get an accurate measurement by simply measuring the dimensions and doing the math.
Thanks.
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"Too often I have met men who speak only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen." - Louis L'Amour
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| Post Number: 2
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:32 pm |
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Packing chips?
Or M&Ms. With or without the Almonds to aid in the packing efficiency.
http://tech.mit.edu/V124/N4/long_5.4w.html
Gotta love science.
"The researchers discovered that oblate spheroids, the shape of M&M's chocolate candies, pack surprisingly more densely than regular spheres when poured randomly and shaken. Extending the work with further experiments and sophisticated computer simulations, they found that a related shape, the ellipsoid, packs at random even more densely than the tightest possible, perfectly ordered arrangement of spheres. Previously, scientists did not know that randomly assembled particles could pack so densely."
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/04/q1/0212-candy.htm
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| Post Number: 4
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:39 pm |
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:32 am)
QUOTE Packing chips? Or M&Ms. With or without the Almonds to aid in the packing efficiency. http://tech.mit.edu/V124/N4/long_5.4w.htmlGotta love science. "The researchers discovered that oblate spheroids, the shape of M&M's chocolate candies, pack surprisingly more densely than regular spheres when poured randomly and shaken. Extending the work with further experiments and sophisticated computer simulations, they found that a related shape, the ellipsoid, packs at random even more densely than the tightest possible, perfectly ordered arrangement of spheres. Previously, scientists did not know that randomly assembled particles could pack so densely." http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/04/q1/0212-candy.htm
When wrestling with packing a &*^$%##$%^&* bear canister I've sometimes wondered what the caloric load would be if I simply filled the thing with a thoughtful mix of M&Ms and SmokeHouse Almonds.
But then I recall a buddy of mine who tried such a thing (GORP only) on a route around North Lake South Lake and he did an alpine solo climb over a nasty col just to escape early from the horror of his diet....
Yeah those Staples or Office Depot biodegradable packing chips would be cheaper and lighter to boot.
As a Kurt Vennegut fan (Ice Nine in Cat's Cradle) I do like the M&M story.
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| Post Number: 5
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Ben2World
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:53 pm |
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Rule #1: Prolly stating common knowledge, but NEVER trust the volume spec (or most any spec) on the tag. So, to find out volume for yourself...
Option 1: Take manual measurements. Too tedious? Maybe spend more care with the main pocket -- and make more casual estimations with the smaller pockets?
Option 2: Line the pockets with appropriately oversized plastic bags -- lawn bag for main, maybe gallon or quart plastic bags for other pockets. One by one, starting with the main pocket, fill with water, then carefully tie. When all completed, remove, untie and empty each into a sizable tub or bucket -- and measure the grand total volume. As you know, the volume of outer pockets tend to decrease as the main one gets filled. This method should help minimize the chance of overstating the total volume. Still tedious, but playing with water can be fun. 
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 6
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Marmotstew
Group: Members
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Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:18 pm |
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Google it?
But do the pockets count? When measuring square feet of a house the basement(if not "finished") and holes in the crawl space won't count.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 7
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tomas
Group: Members
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Joined: Oct. 2006
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:34 pm |
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Weigh the bag empty. Then fill it with as much water as it can hold and weigh it again. Calculate volume from water weight.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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| Post Number: 8
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| Post Number: 9
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hikerjer
Group: Members
Posts: 9129
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:47 pm |
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Thanks for the suggestions but: first these are actually bicycle panniers and won't hold water if you guys are actually serious; second the panniers are so old, circa 1970s, that you can hardly google them. I may have to buy some M & Ms. I guess I can always save them for next Halloween. 
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"Too often I have met men who speak only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen." - Louis L'Amour
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| Post Number: 10
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RumiDude
Group: Members
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Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:01 pm |
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Use a garbage bag to line them and fill with water. But if you go the M&Ms route, I like the new peanutbutter ones.
Rumi
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“This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all.”
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| Post Number: 11
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Ben2World
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:05 pm |
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Yep... Hikerjer, you missed the part I wrote about lining the pack with bags first. Given how a pack bulges... I think this is the best (most accurate) way to measure.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 12
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RebeccaD
Double Arch, Arches N.P.
Group: Members
Posts: 9848
Joined: Jul. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:18 pm |
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Jer, of you go with the M&Ms I'll help you dispose of them
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Bits of writerly thoughts and random short fiction found at
The Ninja Librarian Blog
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| Post Number: 13
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JRinGeorgia
Group: Members
Posts: 295
Joined: Jul. 2012
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:22 pm |
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I wonder to what extent the literal volume even matters. If you calculate the total volume of all the things you want to put in the pack, that still doesn't mean it will all fit -- for example, 40L of stuff almost certainly won't fit into a 40L pack because you can never fill every nook and cranny (just think about the space around a giant cylindrical bear can that doesn't get filled all the way). Ultimately what would seem to matter is whether all the stuff I want to take will fit in this pack or not, whatever the measurements say it holds.
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- JRinGeorgia
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| Post Number: 14
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RebeccaD
Double Arch, Arches N.P.
Group: Members
Posts: 9848
Joined: Jul. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:25 pm |
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Good point, JR. But I still want a share of the M&Ms.
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Bits of writerly thoughts and random short fiction found at
The Ninja Librarian Blog
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| Post Number: 15
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treelinebackpacker
Group: Members
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Joined: Aug. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:30 pm |
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Fill it with anything solid.
Submerge it in water and measure the water dispersed.
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| Post Number: 16
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| Post Number: 17
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hikerjer
Group: Members
Posts: 9129
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 3:10 pm |
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Ya know, sometimes you guys are just plain weird.  Not that ther's any thing wrong with that.
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"Too often I have met men who speak only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen." - Louis L'Amour
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| Post Number: 18
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
Group: Members
Posts: 10778
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 3:12 pm |
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Use packing peanuts. Fill it and then empty them into a box. Measure the size of the box and do the math. One cubic ft equals 28.3 liters.
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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Tigger
Woods Pouncer
Group: Members
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Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 3:15 pm |
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Fill it full of jello...
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If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Group: Members
Posts: 16198
Joined: Aug. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 4:12 pm |
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get a couple garbage bags and put one inside the other.
Put the bags in your pack
Fill them full of water
Put a garbage pail on a scale and note the weight
Pour the water into the pail
A pint's a pound
Convert pints to cubic inches using one of those internet converter thingies
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| Post Number: 24
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RumiDude
Group: Members
Posts: 13639
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 4:34 pm |
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Pack volume is really used to compare packs. It is hard to fill every bit of the volume because that is just the nature of packing. Somethings you pack will compress and mold around other objects and some things will not. So if you are simply trying to compare the volume of your current set of panniers to a potential set or just wanting to know for whatever reason, use the water in a garbage bag method. It really is rather simple and will give you a fairly accurate measurement.
Rumi
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“This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all.”
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| Post Number: 25
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| Post Number: 27
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Marmotstew
Group: Members
Posts: 8673
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 5:24 pm |
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Fill it full of hydrogen until it floats. Then see how many bricks you can tie on and it still floats. Have a gun ready to shoot it down in case it is in danger of floating away.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 28
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TDale
Group: Members
Posts: 13111
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 6:08 pm |
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Decibel meter?
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"Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again...They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave."
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| Post Number: 29
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OldGuyWalkin
Group: Members
Posts: 158
Joined: Nov. 2012
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Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 6:17 pm |
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take your empty pack to a highschool math class and have them calculate for a class project.
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| Post Number: 30
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
