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Topic: Pot-Stoned Drivers' Test Course, How much is too much?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 12:08 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Pot-Stoned Drivers' Test Course
How much is too much?

CNN is carrying a video of three volunteers testing their driving skills after smoking pot. The video is on a course set up and monitored by a local sheriff's department.

With pot-smoking being legalized in some states, I'm curious what laws will be put in place to make sure pot-smokers are not driving under the influence of marijuana. Got any ideas how many hours must pass before a stoned driver can drive safely again?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 12:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Never having smoked pot, I'd be curious if a regular smoker would have less imparment and "sober up" faster than an infrequent smoker.

On an aside, I had a former co-worker that got into extra trouble at work because of the details of her DWI arrest.  Her BAC was very high but she only narrowly failed the SFST's.  The Department used this as "evidence" that she must be a habitual drunk.  It would have probably been tossed out in court but she took the hint and decided to resign.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Many states have a zero tolerance law on driving.  Meaning that if any metabolized THC is in your system you are guilty of DUI.  That could have been smoked 30 days ago.  That is the problem we have in MI with medical marijuana.  The idiot Attorney General who ran the anti medical marijuana campaign during the election has stated that if you have a MM card you can't have a drivers license.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 7:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The limit in WA is sooooo low it virtually makes any user legally DUI even a day following the use.  I hope they acrually do more studies about this rather than turning every user into a virtual non driver or potential DUI.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

duuude!
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 14 2013, 9:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Having smoked enough in my time, I would say the hazards of "pot-stoned" driving to be overpowered by any form of sober distracted driving.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 8:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Weed smoking drivers are more likely to be a road hazard and cause crashes due to their driving slower than surrounding vehicles, stopping for a green light or failing to notice a red has turned green and not moving, or in extreme "wastedness", waiting for a stop sign to change to green.

Not that DUI from any source is good but being stoned is much better than drunk and probably somewhat better than DWD (driving while distracted).

And no, I don't use intoxicants.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 9:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Feb. 14 2013, 10:08 am)
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With pot-smoking being legalized in some states, I'm curious what laws will be put in place to make sure pot-smokers are not driving under the influence of marijuana. Got any ideas how many hours must pass before a stoned driver can drive safely again?

I couldn't get the video to load, so I'm missing part of the conversation.

But anyway, I really don't know how much time needs to pass for pot to dissapate to the point someone is ok to drive.

I can say this, under Wyoming Law DUI (driving under the influence) means driving under the influence of an intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance "to the degree which renders him incapable of safely driving" WSS 31-5-233 (paraphrased)

I'm sure most states have similar laws.

Marijuanna is included as a controlled substance and also included in the long list of controlled substances are many prescription drugs and inhalents. (paint/glue)

So the issue is proving the subject was incapable of safely driving. Having any controlled substance in your system coupled with evidence of being incapable of safely driving isn't going to look good for you in court.

Having said that, I would think (and hope)  there will be a greater effort to refine testing and legal methods testing for drugs and correlating impairness for driving.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Feb. 14 2013, 4:12 pm)
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The limit in WA is sooooo low it virtually makes any user legally DUI even a day following the use.  I hope they acrually do more studies about this rather than turning every user into a virtual non driver or potential DUI.

Rumi

EXACTLY! It's 5 nanograms and I have to say, I probably have 5 nanograms permanently imbedded into my hair, blood veins etc....The law is a start though, and that's a good thing.  There are still many issues which need to be worked out, but again, it's a start.

I manage a home; office; went to college graduated with a 3.9 GPA; etc. etc. etc.  I have never gone to school, under the influence, I have never gone to work under the influence; however, I have driven too many times to count, under the influence of marijuana, I have a perfect driving record.  I've been in one accident in 36 years, and I was not under the influence at the time, so I think IMO, that a "seasoned" user would be able to drive much better than "younger" person.  

I am not lazy, and sit around and get stoned all the time.  I am a productive member of society.  

So I prefer marijuana over alcohol? Which is more harmful? People need to get over it, and quit being so judgmental.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 11:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi...


A most interesting video. Would the amounts smoked for this experiment be considered low, moderate or extreme for an 'average' user (if there is such a thing!)?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 1:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Pathfinder1 @ Feb. 15 2013, 11:50 am)
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Hi...


A most interesting video. Would the amounts smoked for this experiment be considered low, moderate or extreme for an 'average' user (if there is such a thing!)?

I haven't smoked since last spring but up until then I had been a daily user for a number of years. I smoked an ounce/mth or about a gram a day.

A decent sized joint contains about 1/3 of a gram, the initial amount used in the video.  Personally, I preferred a pipe because even that amount all at once was more than I liked.  1/3 of a gram in a pipe would last me a hour, generally.  In the video, they were eventually given 9/10 of a gram.  That’s quite a bit over a short period and not something someone is generally going to consume in that fashion.

In regard to driving, I suspect smoking likely does have a measurable effect on reaction time but not as much as talking on a cell or other activities that distract a driver. I have driven after having smoked but usually not immediately after and found I generally was more content at driving closer to the speed limit, not inclined to lane change as much and more attentive to what was going on around me traffic wise.

IMO, marijuana is far less a problem to society than alcohol.  It is not addictive, does not alter your judgment the way alcohol can, does not cause you to react violently where you otherwise wouldn't (in fact, just the opposite) and if you smoke too much, you just go to sleep.
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(Reminiscence @ Feb. 14 2013, 7:36 pm)
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Having smoked enough in my time, I would say the hazards of "pot-stoned" driving to be overpowered by any form of sober distracted driving.

Yeah, but what if you're reaching across the seat for that bag of Doritos and........

:cool:
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(foggy @ Feb. 15 2013, 11:11 am)
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I manage a home; office; went to college graduated with a 3.9 GPA; etc. etc. etc.  I have never gone to school, under the influence, I have never gone to work under the influence; however, I have driven too many times to count, under the influence of marijuana, I have a perfect driving record.  I've been in one accident in 36 years, and I was not under the influence at the time, so I think IMO, that a "seasoned" user would be able to drive much better than "younger" person.  

I've heard the same thing from drinkers.


Driving while impaired/distracted is not a wise thing to do.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 2:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I found the girl's reaction while driving freakin' hilarious. She was just having too much fun being stoned.

I don't like to drive in general (have bad driving anxiety that sometimes causes panic attacks). I would hate to drive under the influence of anything.

Though, as the passenger on long road trips, I have enjoyed many times. But after a while, I make a horrible navigator. Thank goodness someone invented GPS :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 7:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would contest the statement above that "marijuana is not addictive". That is total BS.

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(Reminiscence @ Feb. 14 2013, 9:36 pm)
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Having smoked enough in my time, I would say the hazards of "pot-stoned" driving to be overpowered by any form of sober distracted driving.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 9:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

dude,i drive better when i'm stoned. :cool:
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 15 2013, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Reminiscence @ Feb. 15 2013, 5:38 pm)
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I would contest the statement above that "marijuana is not addictive". That is total BS.

Weed does not cause a physiological addiction.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 2:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 15 2013, 11:13 pm)
QUOTE

(Reminiscence @ Feb. 15 2013, 5:38 pm)
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I would contest the statement above that "marijuana is not addictive". That is total BS.

Weed does not cause a physiological addiction.

How scientific. How anecdotal.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 9:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Studies I've seen state that pot can cause a psychological addiction but not physiological although it can be strongly habit forming.

Such as a non-alcoholic who always pops a beer when getting home from work. He doesn't physically need it but his mind is telling him he does. Is he addicted?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 9:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 16 2013, 9:03 am)
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Studies I've seen state that pot can cause a psychological addiction but not physiological although it can be strongly habit forming.

Such as a non-alcoholic who always pops a beer when getting home from work. He doesn't physically need it but his mind is telling him he does. Is he addicted?

It indeed can be habit forming and I would suspect the level of psychological addiction may would vary from individual to individual.  Withdrawal symptoms I experienced whenever I quit were similar to those one experiences when they quit smoking cigarettes and never lasted more than a couple of weeks.

Bear in mind that marijuana use by some individuals is a form of self-medication for depression or other mental health issues and this , I suspect, would be a factor in the level of psychological addiction experienced.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 11:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've never understood the need to inhale any kind of smoke into your lungs.  Perhaps an explanation might help?
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(bumknees @ Feb. 16 2013, 9:39 am)
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I've never understood the need to inhale any kind of smoke into your lungs.  Perhaps an explanation might help?

There's no need to drink alcohol either but people still do it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 10:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Now I haven't smoked in quite a few years but what bper hasn't smoked. Really? It's like a snowboarder who doesn't smoke.
In my day I was a champion bong builder.
As far as driving stoned, I did ok. I was conscious at driving the speed limit so I didn't get pulled over.

Now that tokin is legal in CO I may break out the bong on my next bp trip. Shreef up!

BTW pot is not a performance enhancing drug!


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 16 2013, 10:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 16 2013, 9:03 am)
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Studies I've seen state that pot can cause a psychological addiction but not physiological although it can be strongly habit forming.

How old are your studies? That was the thinking up through about the mid-80s. A quick look at PubMed says they may be a little out of date.

(Sorry for the copy/paste...I'm not sure how you find studies, so I included as much info as possible.)

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2013 Feb;344(2):319-28. doi: 10.1124/jpet.112.198374. Epub 2012 Nov 29.
Analysis of Tolerance and Behavioral/Physical Dependence during Chronic CB1 Agonist Treatment: Effects of CB1 Agonists, Antagonists, and Noncannabinoid Drugs.

Med Hypotheses. 2012 Dec 14. pii: S0306-9877(12)00521-X. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2012.11.040. [Epub ahead of print]
Reduction of dependence to cannabinoids by GLT-1 activating property of the beta-lactam antibiotic.

Eur Addict Res. 2013;19(1):13-20. doi: 10.1159/000338642. Epub 2012 Aug 28.
CB1 and CB2 receptor expression and promoter methylation in patients with cannabis dependence.
Rotter A, Bayerlein K, Hansbauer M, Weiland J, Sperling W, Kornhuber J, Biermann T.

Am J Psychiatry. 2012 Aug 1;169(8):805-12. doi: 10.1176/appi.ajp.2012.12010055.
A double-blind randomized controlled trial of N-acetylcysteine in cannabis-dependent adolescents.

Associations between cannabinoid receptor-1 (CNR1) variation and hippocampus and amygdala volumes in heavy cannabis users.
Schacht JP, Hutchison KE, Filbey FM.
Neuropsychopharmacology. 2012 Oct;37(11):2368-76. doi: 10.1038/npp.2012.92. Epub 2012 Jun 6.

State of the art treatments for cannabis dependence.
Danovitch I, Gorelick DA.
Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2012 Jun;35(2):309-26. doi: 10.1016/j.psc.2012.03.003. Epub 2012 Apr 10. Review.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 17 2013, 12:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Addiction potential was not really the topic, but what the heck.

Here is how Dr. Jann Gumbiner describes the addiction factor, writing in Psychology Today about two years ago. (Incidentally, Dr. Gumbiner is a licensed psychologist and clinical professor at the University of California, Irvine College of Medicine.)

Without differentiating between psychological and physiological addiction, she says, "Compared to other substances, marijuana is not very addicting." The potential for addiction among users of various substances is:
    • tobacco, 32%
    • heroin, 23%
    • cocaine, 17%
    • alcohol, 15%
    • marijuana, 9%
She concludes,
    "So, to wrap up, is marijuana addictive? For most people, no. About 10% of recreational users will develop problems severe enough to impair their work and relationships. Many more will come to depend on pot for relaxation and social purposes. This will be problematic if they don't learn more effective coping mechanisms and come to rely on marijuana instead of solving their problems. When ready, most people will be able to quit with only mild withdrawal symptoms. And, compared to other recreational drugs, marijuana is relatively harmless."
Remember also that the category "other recreational drugs" includes alcohol.

And have you ever quit coffee cold-turkey? That commonly results in a serious headache unless replaced by another caffeinated beverage. The headache indicates physical addiction, not merely psychological.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 17 2013, 10:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Withdrawal symptoms. I quit pot for the most recent time about a week ago. I still have withdrawal symptoms, though by this point, life is much better. I think this time I will stick to a no-buying policy, while still enjoying the occasional toke when offered.

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(Reminiscence @ Feb. 17 2013, 10:45 pm)
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Withdrawal symptoms. I quit pot for the most recent time about a week ago. I still have withdrawal symptoms, though by this point, life is much better. I think this time I will stick to a no-buying policy, while still enjoying the occasional toke when offered.

So you quit cause you're broke?  :D

Remember it's better to have pot and no money than it is to have money and no pot.   :cool:

I like pot but since it stays in one's system much longer than the "high" does, I can't chance it. It isn't worth losing my job or getting a DUI.
I don't think that it is addictive at all. At least not for me.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 18 2013, 1:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nah, nothing to do with finances; I've been MUCH broker before and still managed to support my habit. If I buy it and have it, then I become an instant addict. If I casually toke when the opportunity arises with friends, then I'm a casual toker. But since you mentioned it, some new boots and a canyoneering rope will be attainable sooner than later.

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