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Reminiscence 
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 12:55 am |
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If it works, and doesn't really effect other creatures, I would be greatly elated.
http://www.npr.org/blogs....-really
Long live the birds.
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When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
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| Post Number: 2
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buzzards
Group: Members
Posts: 1740
Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 1:17 am |
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Bombs away takes on a whole new meaning....
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Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
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| Post Number: 3
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Altarboy
Group: Members
Posts: 246
Joined: Jan. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 10:09 am |
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There's gotta be a better way. It seems there would be too much collateral damage to other animals.
I was told that long ago Guam had a rat problem, so they introduced the bushmaster snake. That took care of the rodent problem but the snakes took over, so they introduced the mongoose. That took care of the snakes, but the mongooses became too plentiful and were decimated by rabies. I don't remember where I read this.
It sure seems like a bounty would do the trick, be more ecologically responsible, and provide money to locals.
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| Post Number: 4
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double cabin
Group: Members
Posts: 15405
Joined: Nov. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 12:00 pm |
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I share your concerns Altarboy but in terms of the bounty how would one effectively hunt snakes in the canopy? 2 MILLION of them?
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We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.
http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
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| Post Number: 5
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Reminiscence
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 12:13 pm |
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I think the proposed dead mouse methodology is a very interesting experiment at minimum, with the potential to have huge ecological payoffs.
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When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
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| Post Number: 6
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
Posts: 5299
Joined: Feb. 2006
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 1:22 pm |
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The trip I'm planning for mid-March is with a buddy I haven't seen since he moved to Guam 3+ years ago; now he's moving back. I'll definitely be passing this article on to him to see what he knows about the snake problem and if he's had any first hand encounters with the critters!
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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| Post Number: 7
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 1:32 pm |
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I don't dispute the motive, but "experts" don't always think through all possibilities and consequences -- sometimes, we just don't have all the knowledge. I'm sure "experts" thought introducing Africanized bees to the Americas was a brilliant idea at one time! Sure, dead mice won't multiply -- but could there still be unforeseen consequences?? Once dropped, you can't there's no retrieving.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 8
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Reminiscence
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 2:06 pm |
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That's why it's described as an experiment, Ben. Experiments produce results that may or may not be expected. Our knowledge of these kinds of things has improved drastically since the old days of bee introductions and such.
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When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
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| Post Number: 9
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| Post Number: 10
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Altarboy
Group: Members
Posts: 246
Joined: Jan. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 4:08 pm |
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Well yeah thats a lot of snakes. Yikes. I don't mind the occasional snake on the trail-I use a stick to move them off the trail for their own good. Lots of rednecks in this area believe you should kill every snake you see.A snake is the Devils handpuppet, you know.lol
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| Post Number: 11
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big_load
Group: Members
Posts: 21818
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 4:45 pm |
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Nothing is without risk, and I think saving the birds is worth some risk. At least the poisoned mice can't breed.
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| Post Number: 12
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
Group: Members
Posts: 10781
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 4:50 pm |
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I wonder if there are any other experiments in regards to the effect of acet(hell, tylenol) on any other species? Is there something dreadful about to happen when those mice begin to drop out of the canopy and onto the ground?
With the spiders exploding since the demise of the birds, will this be sufficient to return some of the numbers of the birds, or at least those not already extinct?
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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| Post Number: 13
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39516
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 5:33 pm |
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 23 2013, 11:18 am)
QUOTE
(Reminiscence @ Feb. 23 2013, 11:06 am)
QUOTE That's why it's described as an experiment, Ben. Experiments produce results that may or may not be expected. Our knowledge of these kinds of things has improved drastically since the old days of bee introductions and such. Experimental? Same same re. Africanized bees.  Not saying it will fail. But saying my confidence in "experts" isn't rock solid. Too many mishaps when humans try to 'manage' Nature. Note that this episode is an attempt to correct prior errors.
Actually the "experts" recognized the issue with the African bee strains. The release was contrary to the plan, which had been to contain the queens in a cross breeding experiment. The release was accidental.
That raises issues of proper precautions but not a careless disregard for the problems the bees had posed to the Western Hemisphere's ecosystem
It's a well known story. More here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee#section_1
The dead mice have the advantage of being a measured dose: they can slowly introduce some and monitor the result. Unlike a live biological that could breed and sustain a problem should there be one that was unforeseen.
And there are already preliminary works that indicate this approach hold's promise.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlif....122.pdf
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| Post Number: 14
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| Post Number: 15
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Altarboy
Group: Members
Posts: 246
Joined: Jan. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 9:07 pm |
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And would a wild snake eat a dead mouse? I guess they've already tried that. Surely.
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| Post Number: 16
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
Posts: 3816
Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 10:11 pm |
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It would be wrong to do nothing. I would prefer that experts made decisions as opposed to people that knew nothing about the situation.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8742
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 9:04 am |
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Too bad they couldn't poison the mice with something that would kill the pigs too.
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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JimInMD
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 9:28 am |
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Whenever I think I might not like my job, I will have the comfort of remembering that it doesn't involve tying tiny parachutes to dead rodents.
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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JimInMD
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 10:52 am |
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It goes without saying that I think all the mice should be dressed in tiny goggles and flight helmets and the "wreckage" of correct scale size WWII aircraft should be scattered around the island. Future archeologists will spend DECADES figuring that one out.
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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| Post Number: 23
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Dave Senesac
Group: Members
Posts: 3021
Joined: Jun. 2002
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 11:14 am |
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About time they did something. There have been proposals for doing various things a long time that the illogical minded manage to monkeywrench. Generations ago such ecological solutions involving planting prey species where invasive alien species were brought in usually was thought through by ignorant stupid small minds.
The DEAD mouse plan is a good start but how effective that might be is suspect. If they only release say 10,000 dead mice just as an experiment to see how many are actually eaten and how many snake die, well fine as far as gathering data goes.
A better similar strategy is to release way more live mice that cannot breed than the total number of snakes. For instance all male mice or even all sterilized males for those that are still afraid. In fact release 5 million of them all at once. Enough to make all those snakes fat for a day. Sure the mice may also affect the island ecology for a year but then they are all going to be dead as well as the snake. But once they decide to eliminate the snakes, the better strategy is to get ALL of them, else residual snake populations will continue to breed.
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...David
http://davidsenesac.com
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
Posts: 3816
Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 12:17 pm |
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I got a good laugh out of Jim's ideas.
I really wouldn't want the job of determining sex for a few million mice.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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burntfoot
Group: Members
Posts: 2319
Joined: Mar. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2013, 7:07 pm |
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I started my teaching career on Guam, and lived there for 5 years. And, the snakes were a huge problem even then. In my 5 years there, I only saw one snake, though. It was night and I drove over something that felt bumped the car and scared me. So, I stopped and looked, thinking I hit something more serious (like a kid). I got out and saw a snake at least 10 feet long behind my car. I hadn't been driving fast, and was amazed at how big that snake was. Never saw another snake, even though they were numerous, there were bounties out, and 7 of those 9 birds that are now extinct were already gone. My only other encounter were power outages that were almost weekly at times. Snakes would climb power poles, including those huge concrete ones meant to withstand typhoons, hit the power lines, and trigger an outage. Often times, the power outage would reach the relay station, and go on to the next like the domino effect. The power company (GPA) would trace the outage to the source and most of the time find a fried snake below the power lines. Their solution? Huge cones on all the power poles similar to ones used to keep squirrels off of bird feeders, or for dogs who have had surgery to prevent them from licking or biting the stitches.
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I love the mountains!
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
