|
|
| Post Number: 1
|
Ben2World 
Group: Members
Posts: 23915
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
 |
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 5:27 pm |
|
   |
Nightmare Bacteria - Real? Hyped? Both?
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 2
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39560
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:06 pm |
|
 |
Neither but anyway my $0.02. Real and not hyped:
"This is a real public health issue. Creating more resistant strains is a serious long-term problem. The new warning is panicking a lot of people, but for the wrong reasons. You're very, very unlikely to get a CRE infection anytime in the near future. It's important that hospitals work to prevent that problem from getting worse, but almost everyone reading about it this week will be unaffected by it.
It's much, much more likely, though, that these same people will ask for antibiotics when they get a cold. That's the kind of thing that will lead to future problems. That's the kind of thing we need to stop now."
Reasonable conclusion reasonably written. Though I would have wished (though it might have been a dilution since this was aimed at the general public) he'd included a call for a better review of the tons of antibiotics the meat industry uses, a tonnage that exceeds what is used for the medical treatment of humans in the United States....
BUT were I to be a patient in a hospital I would be VERY vigilant that anyone stepping into my space was following anti-contamination procedures to protect me from what is without a doubt in the hospital environment, filled as it is with sick people.... and I would be extra cautious once I came home about the onset of any symptoms I hadn't had before the visit: getting anything treated brought from the hospital home would be somehting best done rapidly and not something to wait patiently to work itself out, the hospital derived infections are difficult to treat once they get going so the key is to start treating them early and aggressively.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 3
|
JimInMD
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:29 pm |
|
|
My wife is a nursing director at a very large, very advanced hospital with her Masters in Public Health from Boston College. She is VERY concerned about this largely because she will tell you that hospitals are frightening and the number of errors they cause is terrifying. She's far more concerned about this than I am, lets put it that way.
--------------
Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 4
|
|
|
| Post Number: 5
|
|
|
| Post Number: 6
|
ponderosa
Group: Members
Posts: 3990
Joined: Jul. 2003
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:39 pm |
|
|
Also neither, but I have spent ten years working in health care. It was not many years ago that MRSA was found only in a few hospitals, and mostly a concern only for immuno-compromised patients. Now it is in virtually every hospital and thriving out in the community as well, everywhere from the equipment and towels at your gym, to childrens' daycare centers. VRE and others are following that same trajectory.
Yeah, a new untreatable superbug which has been fatal to half of the people infected with it, cropping up in the country's largest hospitals...a real concern, not over-hyped in my view.
--------------
The harder the toil, the sweeter the rest.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 7
|
hbfa
Group: Members
Posts: 7073
Joined: Feb. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:53 pm |
|
|
From the link:
"Most people believe that the injudicious use of antibiotics is to blame for these developments. Every time we use antibiotics, we give bacteria a chance to evolve. We kill off those susceptible to the drugs and leave those that have developed resistance. Each time we use antibiotics unnecessarily, say to treat a virus, we make the problem worse. Each time we use them improperly, or for too short a period of time, we do the same. These days, we're putting them in everything, from soap, to lotion, to the food that animals eat."
A good friend of mine is a perfect example of this. He runs to the doctor asking for antibiotics every time he gets a cough or a sniffle. The worst part is, his doctor keeps writing the prescriptions.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 8
|
VAN
Group: Members
Posts: 3176
Joined: Nov. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 7:00 pm |
|
|
Yep, worked in healthcare for 6+ years and I would probably test positive for MRSA and/or VRE just from being exposed to it every day. I used to come home and strip down in my garage, throwing everything straight into the washing machine. I didn't want those germs in my house with my infant. I also work really hard to not overdo the need for antibiotics. The less we take of them, the more useful they can be.
Where's Roger? He's the Public Health expert. We've had one too many fireside chats about C-diff and fecal implants as a cure..... (sorry to gross anyone out, but it works!)
--------------
"Long you live and high you fly. And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry. And all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 9
|
|
|
| Post Number: 10
|
Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23915
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 7:24 pm |
|
|
Serious... and sobering. 
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 11
|
big_load
Group: Members
Posts: 21831
Joined: Jun. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 8:06 pm |
|
|
My mother-in-law contracted a MRSA infection, most likely during a medical examination at a large hospital. After more than a year of treatment, the infection was still not healed when she died of other causes.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 12
|
Reminiscence
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm |
|
|
The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. Anti-evolutionists should take a long, hard look at some case studies of the measurable, quantified evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains.
--------------
When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 13
|
brownmouse
Group: Members
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sep. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 10:55 pm |
|
|
Yep - hospital nursing for nearly 25 yrs. We are not the invincible species we believe ourselves to be. Wash your hands.
--------------
"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees." John Muir 1898
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 14
|
|
|
| Post Number: 15
|
SW Mtn backpacker
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Group: Members
Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:32 am |
|
|
(Ben2World @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:08 pm)
QUOTE
(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 6:01 pm)
QUOTE The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. Anti-evolutionists should take a long, hard look at some case studies of the measurable, quantified evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains. In the dark times before antibiotics, many people died from "mere scratches to the skin" when infected. It didn't take much at all. In more recent decades, 'nobody' dies from scratches or small wounds anymore. But I fear the years ahead -- should our antibiotics become useless -- that we return right back to those dark days when "mere scratches" become heartbreaking tragedies again. Can someone tell me this won't happen?
A lot of human life has been saved by antibiotics but I do not think there's any guarantee. We've had it pretty good versus other centuries. The big problem is that various bacteria are ubiquitous, meaning everywhere (surfaces, floating in the air, etc..), so a super-virulent strain one day could take out a lot.
Like days of old, there's quarantine and sanatoriums with our relatively new understanding of microbiology and genetics. Also there's the Monty Python skit with the medieval undertaker cart, "... dead....bring out your dead ... "
Monty Python
--------------
Usually Southwest and then some.
In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 16
|
Tigger
Woods Pouncer
Group: Members
Posts: 10502
Joined: Apr. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 2:19 am |
|
|
I'm not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...You're screwed.
--------------
If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 17
|
jcb
Group: Members
Posts: 3940
Joined: Dec. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 3:02 am |
|
|
So I read this while laying in a hospital after surgery. Great.
--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 18
|
frmertd
Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am |
|
|
15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 19
|
|
|
| Post Number: 20
|
frmertd
Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:28 am |
|
|
It is true that families will demand antibiotics for obviously viral things. Its also true that families will demand their elderly relatives be admitted to the hospital, where they are much more likely to catch one of these 'superbugs'.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 21
|
WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8754
Joined: Jun. 2004
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:29 am |
|
|
(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm)
QUOTE The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance.
QUOTE frmertd
· Posted on Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am
15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making.
+1 to both of your posts.
--------------
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 22
|
|
|
| Post Number: 23
|
Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23915
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:04 pm |
|
|
(big_load @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:16 am)
QUOTE
(jcb @ Mar. 08 2013, 3:02 am)
QUOTE So I read this while laying in a hospital after surgery. Great. Yikes! I hope you get back up to speed quickly.
+1. Wash often -- and use Purell too.
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 24
|
Reminiscence
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:25 pm |
|
|
The Purell-resistant strains are the most virulent of all.
Uncouth joke. 
--------------
When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 25
|
Reminiscence
Group: Members
Posts: 3532
Joined: Sep. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:26 pm |
|
|
(WalksWithBlackflies @ Mar. 08 2013, 10:29 am)
QUOTE
(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm)
QUOTE The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. QUOTE frmertd
· Posted on Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am
15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making. +1 to both of your posts.
Interestingly enough, more antibiotic resistance is found downstream from the big livestock feedlots.
--------------
When you are out West
Please, at my behest
Since you are Nature's guest
Do something to help the rest:
Dismantle a fire ring;
Take a stone and give a swing.
You may find that it will bring
A lift of goodness 'neath your wing.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 26
|
Tigger
Woods Pouncer
Group: Members
Posts: 10502
Joined: Apr. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 2:35 pm |
|
|
My son did an experiment in school with hand soaps and alcohol sanitizers. Soap was 90% more effective...not just a little, 90% more. The UV light showed that Purell was all but completely worthless against bacteria. I wash my hands with soap now.
--------------
If I'm going to be lost, in the woods is where I want to be...
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 27
|
|
|
| Post Number: 28
|
Echo
Group: Members
Posts: 6377
Joined: May 2008
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:17 pm |
|
|
(Ben2World @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:38 am)
QUOTE
(Tigger @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:35 am)
QUOTE My son did an experiment in school with hand soaps and alcohol sanitizers. Soap was 90% more effective...not just a little, 90% more. The UV light showed that Purell was all but completely worthless against bacteria. I wash my hands with soap now. Surprising. Dishonest advertisement on Purell's part? 
I saw a study about this, although long enough ago I don't remember whose or when. it said that purell, well, hand sanitizers anyway, were good on skin that was already basically clean, but any bacteria under a layer of grease/oily residue wouldn't be removed by the sanitizer but would with soap and water.
also one who almost lost a Mother-in-law to c-dif during a lengthy stay in Mayo clinic for electric shock treatment on 2006
--------------
If Light is in your heart, you will find your way Home. (Rumi)
The miracle is not to fly in the air, or to walk on the water, but to walk on the earth. Chinese proverb
http://echo-echosvoice.blogspot.com/
http://duffybarkley.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 29
|
JimInMD
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
|
|
Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:31 pm |
|
|
Indeed, the Missus is a big believer that hand sanitizer is better than nothing, but not by a wide margin. Basically it will help you if your hands were clean and you then come into contact with germs but as noted will not clean your hands.
Me, I think we over control many harmless bacteria and it's why people seem so sensitive to anything that does get in. We're not letting out immune systems exercise against the small crap they should be dealing with.
That said, my medical advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.
--------------
Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 30
|
|
|
|
|
|
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
