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Topic: Is There a Doctor or Nurse on this Forum?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 5:27 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nightmare Bacteria - Real?  Hyped?  Both?

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Neither but anyway my $0.02. Real and not hyped:
"This is a real public health issue. Creating more resistant strains is a serious long-term problem. The new warning is panicking a lot of people, but for the wrong reasons. You're very, very unlikely to get a CRE infection anytime in the near future. It's important that hospitals work to prevent that problem from getting worse, but almost everyone reading about it this week will be unaffected by it.
It's much, much more likely, though, that these same people will ask for antibiotics when they get a cold. That's the kind of thing that will lead to future problems. That's the kind of thing we need to stop now."

Reasonable conclusion reasonably written. Though I would have wished (though it might have been a dilution since this was aimed at the general public) he'd included a call for a better review of the tons of antibiotics the meat industry uses, a tonnage that exceeds what is used for the medical treatment of humans in the United States....

BUT were I to be a patient in a hospital I would be VERY vigilant that anyone stepping into my space was following anti-contamination procedures to protect me from what is without a doubt in the hospital environment, filled as it is with sick people.... and I would be extra cautious once I came home about the onset of any symptoms I hadn't had before the visit: getting anything treated brought from the hospital home would be somehting best done rapidly and not something to wait patiently to work itself out, the hospital derived infections are difficult to treat once they get going so the key is to start treating them early and aggressively.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My wife is a nursing director at a very large, very advanced hospital with her Masters in Public Health from Boston College.  She is VERY concerned about this largely because she will tell you that hospitals are frightening and the number of errors they cause is terrifying.  She's far more concerned about this than I am, lets put it that way.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Mar. 07 2013, 3:06 pm)
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BUT were I to be a patient in a hospital I would be VERY vigilant that anyone stepping into my space was following anti-contamination procedures to protect me from what is without a doubt in the hospital environment, filled as it is with sick people.... and I would be extra cautious once I came home about the onset of any symptoms I hadn't had before the visit: getting anything treated brought from the hospital home would be somehting best done rapidly and not something to wait patiently to work itself out, the hospital derived infections are difficult to treat once they get going so the key is to start treating them early and aggressively.

+1  My aunt almost died from C-diff this past summer.  She got it from another patient in her room.  Hospitals are full of nasty things which can be easily spread in that close environment.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Mar. 07 2013, 3:29 pm)
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My wife is a nursing director at a very large, very advanced hospital with her Masters in Public Health from Boston College.  She is VERY concerned about this largely because she will tell you that hospitals are frightening and the number of errors they cause is terrifying.  She's far more concerned about this than I am, lets put it that way.

On the "error" topic this and it's follow ups are a great, if sobering, read:
"To Err is Human: Building A Safer Health System"
http://www.iom.edu/Reports....em.aspx
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also neither, but I have spent ten years working in health care.  It was not many years ago that MRSA was found only in a few hospitals, and mostly a concern only for immuno-compromised patients.  Now it is in virtually every hospital and thriving out in the community as well, everywhere from the equipment and towels at your gym, to childrens' daycare centers.  VRE and others are following that same trajectory.

Yeah, a new untreatable superbug which has been fatal to half of the people infected with it, cropping up in the country's largest hospitals...a real concern, not over-hyped in my view.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From the link:
"Most people believe that the injudicious use of antibiotics is to blame for these developments. Every time we use antibiotics, we give bacteria a chance to evolve. We kill off those susceptible to the drugs and leave those that have developed resistance. Each time we use antibiotics unnecessarily, say to treat a virus, we make the problem worse. Each time we use them improperly, or for too short a period of time, we do the same. These days, we're putting them in everything, from soap, to lotion, to the food that animals eat."

A good friend of mine is a perfect example of this.  He runs to the doctor asking for antibiotics every time he gets a cough or a sniffle.  The worst part is, his doctor keeps writing the prescriptions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 7:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep, worked in healthcare for 6+ years and I would probably test positive for MRSA and/or VRE just from being exposed to it every day. I used to come home and strip down in my garage, throwing everything straight into the washing machine. I didn't want those germs in my house with my infant. I also work really hard to not overdo the need for antibiotics. The less we take of them, the more useful they can be.

Where's Roger? He's the Public Health expert. We've had one too many fireside chats about C-diff and fecal implants as a cure..... (sorry to gross anyone out, but it works!)


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 7:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 07 2013, 2:27 pm)
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Nightmare Bacteria - Real?  Hyped?  Both?

If the bacteria doesn't get you, the mountain lions most certainly will, Ben.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 7:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Serious... and sobering.   :(

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My mother-in-law contracted a MRSA infection, most likely during a medical examination at a large hospital.  After more than a year of treatment, the infection was still not healed when she died of other causes.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. Anti-evolutionists should take a long, hard look at some case studies of the measurable, quantified evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 10:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep - hospital nursing for nearly 25 yrs. We are not the invincible species we believe ourselves to be. Wash your hands.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 6:01 pm)
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The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. Anti-evolutionists should take a long, hard look at some case studies of the measurable, quantified evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains.

In the dark times before antibiotics, many people died from "mere scratches to the skin" when infected.  It didn't take much at all.

In more recent decades, 'nobody' dies from scratches or small wounds anymore.

But I fear the years ahead -- should our antibiotics become useless -- that we return right back to those dark days when "mere scratches" become heartbreaking tragedies again.

Can someone tell me this won't happen?


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:08 pm)
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(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 6:01 pm)
QUOTE
The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance. Anti-evolutionists should take a long, hard look at some case studies of the measurable, quantified evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains.

In the dark times before antibiotics, many people died from "mere scratches to the skin" when infected.  It didn't take much at all.

In more recent decades, 'nobody' dies from scratches or small wounds anymore.

But I fear the years ahead -- should our antibiotics become useless -- that we return right back to those dark days when "mere scratches" become heartbreaking tragedies again.

Can someone tell me this won't happen?

A lot of human life has been saved by antibiotics but I do not think there's any guarantee.  We've had it pretty good versus other centuries.  The big problem is that various bacteria are ubiquitous, meaning everywhere (surfaces, floating in the air, etc..), so a super-virulent strain one day could take out a lot.  

Like days of old, there's quarantine and sanatoriums with our relatively new understanding of microbiology and genetics.  Also there's the Monty Python skit with the medieval undertaker cart, "... dead....bring out your dead ... "


Monty Python


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 2:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm not a doctor but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...You're screwed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 3:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So I read this while laying in a hospital after surgery. Great.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making.
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(jcb @ Mar. 08 2013, 3:02 am)
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So I read this while laying in a hospital after surgery. Great.

Yikes!  I hope you get back up to speed quickly.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is true that families will demand antibiotics for obviously viral things. Its also true that families will demand their elderly relatives be admitted to the hospital, where they are much more likely to catch one of these 'superbugs'.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm)
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The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance.

QUOTE
frmertd

· Posted on Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am
15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making.


+1 to both of your posts.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 10:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(VAN @ Mar. 07 2013, 7:00 pm)
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Where's Roger?

Lately, he seems to be doing better things than reading Backpacker forums.

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(big_load @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:16 am)
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(jcb @ Mar. 08 2013, 3:02 am)
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So I read this while laying in a hospital after surgery. Great.

Yikes!  I hope you get back up to speed quickly.

+1.  Wash often -- and use Purell too.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 12:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Purell-resistant strains are the most virulent of all.
















































Uncouth joke. :p


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(WalksWithBlackflies @ Mar. 08 2013, 10:29 am)
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(Reminiscence @ Mar. 07 2013, 9:01 pm)
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The antibiotics now flow in the Earth's streams, creating further resistance.

QUOTE
frmertd

· Posted on Mar. 08 2013, 10:09 am
15 years. I think an underreported issues: 1.) antibiotics in the farm areas. they have been pumping livestock feed with antibiotics for years. The megacorporations (tyco,etc.) that control food production in the us do to because they believe it 'keeps em healthy'. When you do that for years you have to breed out resistant strains.
So it's a problem of our own making.


+1 to both of your posts.

Interestingly enough, more antibiotic resistance is found downstream from the big livestock feedlots.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 2:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My son did an experiment in school with hand soaps and alcohol sanitizers. Soap was 90% more effective...not just a little, 90% more. The UV light showed that Purell was all but completely worthless against bacteria. I wash my hands with soap now.

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(Tigger @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:35 am)
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My son did an experiment in school with hand soaps and alcohol sanitizers. Soap was 90% more effective...not just a little, 90% more. The UV light showed that Purell was all but completely worthless against bacteria. I wash my hands with soap now.

Surprising.  Dishonest advertisement on Purell's part?  ???

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:38 am)
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(Tigger @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:35 am)
QUOTE
My son did an experiment in school with hand soaps and alcohol sanitizers. Soap was 90% more effective...not just a little, 90% more. The UV light showed that Purell was all but completely worthless against bacteria. I wash my hands with soap now.

Surprising.  Dishonest advertisement on Purell's part?  ???

I saw a study about this, although long enough ago I don't remember whose or when. it said that purell, well, hand sanitizers anyway, were good on skin that was already basically clean, but any bacteria under a layer of grease/oily residue wouldn't be removed by the sanitizer but would with soap and water.


also one who almost lost a Mother-in-law to c-dif during a lengthy stay in Mayo clinic for electric shock treatment on 2006


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Indeed, the Missus is a big believer that hand sanitizer is better than nothing, but not by a wide margin.  Basically it will help you if your hands were clean and you then come into contact with germs but as noted will not clean your hands.  

Me, I think we over control many harmless bacteria and it's why people seem so sensitive to anything that does get in.  We're not letting out immune systems exercise against the small crap they should be dealing with.  

That said, my medical advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.


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(JimInMD @ Mar. 08 2013, 1:31 pm)
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That said, my medical advise is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Maryland?  Thought you were a doctor!  :p

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