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Topic: One of the top ten things NOT to do: Piss Off your, cherpa on the way to Mt. Everest< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 10:34 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

29 April 2013 Last updated at 06:32 ET
Everest: Climbers Steck and Moro in fight with Sherpas


When they returned to their tents, Mr Moro said a large mob of guides had grouped together to attack him, Mr Steck and a third climber in their expedition, Briton Jonathan Griffith.

"[The guides] became instantly aggressive and not only punched and kicked the climbers, but threw many rocks as well," said Mr Moro.


Source.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 11:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

An interesting read on the subject.

http://www.highcrimesbook.com/

That kind of stuff doesn't happen with the large, experienced guide services.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 11:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It sounds like these two guys weren't using Sherpa guides on their climb, and were actually trying to avoid them altogether.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2whtR5yEZAc
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Much more detail.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Such incidents illustrate why I prefer to avoid crowds and handle my own trips.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 4:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Kind of hard to determine who's at fault.

The climbers and photographer are doing the ascent without sherpas and oxygen. When they got to where the sherpas were working on a line, they went around then up then crossed back to the main route. It appears they may have knocked some ice onto the sherpas. But, the climber says there wasn't any ice and it was all snow.

The sherpas descended then when the climbers got back down there were accosted by the sherpas with kicks and rocks.

It could be that the sherpas weren't happy with climbers not using their services. Or, it could be that the climbers were acting arrogant and it caused some consternation.  The Nepal tourism authority seems bent on keeping the climbers happy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 29 2013, 5:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Apr. 29 2013, 4:38 pm)
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Kind of hard to determine who's at fault.

I agree.

In any case, too many people and too much money kill the fun.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 8:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I bet the video would be hilarious. PUNCH, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, PUNCH, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, PUNCH...

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 2:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More of the story ...

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 2:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Apr. 30 2013, 2:27 pm)
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The possible future requirements that mentions will raise a ruckus.

The incident was also featured on Nightline last night, but I pretty much tuned it out.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 6:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And another little tidbit ...

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 6:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Apr. 30 2013, 3:09 pm)
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Interesting account by someone not directly involved but witnessed some of the action. Also interesting that the woman, Melissa who, in all practicalities, saved the lives of the climbers who were being attacked by standing between them and the piss-offed sherpas. She rebuffed them a couple times. I guess the sherpas won't touch a woman.

"Currently, Rory and I are easing the tension listening to the Grateful Dead." Grateful Dead on the slopes of Mt. Everest. That's interesting, too.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 8:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Apr. 29 2013, 1:00 pm)
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Such incidents illustrate why I prefer to avoid crowds and handle my own trips.

likewise

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 30 2013, 10:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ Apr. 30 2013, 6:09 pm)
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If true, it shows how wrong messing with somebody's meal ticket can go.  If it's accurate, it also implies they didn't realize that's how their actions would be interpreted, which seems hard to believe at their level of experience.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 12:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Apr. 30 2013, 7:16 pm)
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(RumiDude @ Apr. 30 2013, 6:09 pm)
QUOTE

If true, it shows how wrong messing with somebody's meal ticket can go.  If it's accurate, it also implies they didn't realize that's how their actions would be interpreted, which seems hard to believe at their level of experience.

The interesting thing to me is how experienced these climbers are in regard to dealing with Sherpa climbers and guides.  In the past they were probably involved with treks which used climbing and porter Sherpas.  But this particular trek they did not have Sherpa support and were independent.  They have shown every indication in the past of being quite respectful towards Sherpas.  Ueli Steck even allowed another Sherpa climber to climb on his permit after being removed from another permit climb.  This allowed the Sherpa climber to attempt summiting Everest without supplemental oxygen and as a climbing equal. And Simone Moro pilots a helicopter for free to evacuate injured/sick Sherpas.  

My guess is that there are simmering resentments among some of the Sherpa.  This was too small of an issue in itself to have elicited this extreme response.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 12:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(RumiDude @ May 01 2013, 12:05 am)
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My guess is that there are simmering resentments among some of the Sherpa.  This was too small of an issue in itself to have elicited this extreme response.

That's the only plausible explanation.  What's harder to understand is why people didn't sense the tension building.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 8:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm thinking "nobody sensed the tension building" has to do with no one wanting to deal with it, of the bad news being "not in the script."

All these commercial trips, everyone wanting to claim the summit, or "success" has a way of lending attaboys to folks voicing thoughts that lead to "success", demerits to "negative" thoughts.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Eric H @ May 01 2013, 8:00 pm)
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I'm thinking "nobody sensed the tension building" has to do with no one wanting to deal with it, of the bad news being "not in the script."

Probably so.  Not dealing with things rarely leads anywhere good.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

An excellent National Geographic article that goes a little deeper about the relationship between the sherpas and the climbers. In the comments section, it seems some of the participants are or know current sherpas.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 7:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Apr. 29 2013, 4:38 pm)
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Kind of hard to determine who's at fault.

I agree as well.  It's a one-sided story -- and in this case, it's one lousy sentence explaining the background (i.e. stepping over ropes and breaking mountain etiquette) -- and then multiple paragraphs describing the 'frightful ordeal'.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 04 2013, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The fact that a mountaineering community (and others) describe professional porters, assistant climbers, and guides by their ethnicity is sad, deeply disrespectful and ignorant.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 04 2013, 3:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Random Walker @ May 04 2013, 2:02 pm)
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The fact that a mountaineering community (and others) describe professional porters, assistant climbers, and guides by their ethnicity is sad, deeply disrespectful and ignorant.

Hang on, PC patrol.  I guess you missed all the quotes where sherpas refer to themselves as....sherpas.  I suppose they are ignorant, too?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 04 2013, 5:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Racism is a component of this conflict, but not in the way that you might think. I found this to fill in a lot of background info on the incident. The problems on Everest have been building for decades. Violence on Everest-The Daily Beast

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(Ecocentric @ May 04 2013, 2:05 pm)
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Racism is a component of this conflict, but not in the way that you might think. I found this to fill in a lot of background info on the incident. The problems on Everest have been building for decades. Violence on Everest-The Daily Beast

My read is that the western climbers in question got in trouble because they refused to pay for local guides -- and not because they paid the 'wrong' ethnic guides.

Interestingly, the base camp on the Chinese/Tibetan side is also run by Tibetans, not Han or other ethnic Chinese.

Not sure if any stretch of any of our national parks or historic parks require guides -- but if so -- imagine if a bunch of foreign visitors insist on strutting out on their own -- refusing to pay...  they probably won't get stoned, but arrested instead.  Either way, not a good outcome for intentionally refusing to follow local laws or customs.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 04 2013, 5:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that you are right Ben, they were doing the climb without local support, had done so in the past, and were developing a business plan that would  do more of the same. The Italian was both impatient and rude, the Sherpas had a sense of entitlement and felt that their livelihood was threatened. These are common enough conflicts between different cultures.

Over the years I have had a lot of interaction with guides. I have done a little guiding myself. Competition for turf is common, and ego is rampant. At high altitude, feelings swing wildly and rational thinking fails. I know and have worked with some Tibetans (not in a guiding context) that I think very highly of, in fact have never met one that I didn't like, but what I found so interesting about the article that I read, is that competition on the mountain may be eroding values that I think are Tibet's most important contribution to world culture. The world would be a better place if it were a little more Buddhist.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 04 2013, 5:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ May 04 2013, 2:45 pm)
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The world would be a better place if it were a little more Buddhist.

Yes.  But the world would also be a better place if folks will just "follow" the spirit of most any of the world's popular religions!  Or follow the secular teachings bestowed on us in Kindergarten -- be nice to others, share our toys, and return things where we found them...

There is definitely a western tendency toward idealizing eastern religions and philosophies.  Or perhaps it is simply the nature of "familiarity breeding contempt"?  

One thing... many Asians hold various degrees of contempt toward Buddhist abbots and monks -- along with almost romanticized views of Christianity!  Probably for similar reasons.

Bottom line:  Human failings are due to humans themselves. Blaming failure on this or that philosophy or religion is oftentimes just a cop out.  Take someone who trends toward the extreme.  Take a religious zealot.  Take away his religion and he will likely obsess over something else!  My two cents.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 08 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

The articles on this just keep coming.  This one from Outside Magazine, interview of Ueli Steck:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....?page=5


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