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Question: Do you carry a snake bit kit :: Total Votes:54
Poll choices Votes Statistics
Yes 1  [1.85%]
No 52  [96.30%]
Only for bears 1  [1.85%]
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Topic: Do you carry a snake bit kit< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:00 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't carry a snake bite kit, but this guy did. Still don't see myself rushing out to buy one though.

ETA: Love it when I put typos in the subject line!  :angry:


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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not without its controversy:

QUOTE
Wilderness enthusiasts often carry snake-bite kits, which makers say can treat a wound until help arrives. Scientists say the kits, which typically include suction devices and sometimes scalpels to drain the wound, may do more harm than good.


Deadly Dilemma: Do Snake-Bite Kits Help?

BTW - on a another forum that guy (or someone posing as that guy) claimed it was a timber rattler and that he sucked out 3 to 4 cups of blood.  You believe that?
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I rack up a lot of miles in rattlesnake country, but I never carry a snakebite kit.  

Also, I don't see how anyone could suck 3-4 cups of blood out of a snakebite, at least not without amputating first.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When I first moved out west I bought one, but now I never carry it.  I live in snake country but have only seen a few... I've seen a lot more bull snakes, which look very similar.

And yes, rattlesnake tastes a lot like chicken.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If I were to it would be a true antivenin kit and not one of those bleed things.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 9:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I carry a leech...

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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 10:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Stop calling me a leech!

I used to carry one in Wyoming, when I was 30 and didn't know any better.  After meeting a rattlesnake expert, I stopped carrying it altogether.   Now, it just seems like a phase I went through where I carried lots of worthless stuff.  


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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 10:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I carried one until many years ago when I read that cutting into the bite and mouth suction also were likely to be more harmful than the bite itself. That's when I stopped.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 11:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Considering most bites are dry to begin with, one of those kits wouldn't do anything anyway. Not to mention that with the exception of the coral snake, most healthy adults will almost always survive envenomation even without medical attention (not that I'm saying not to see a doc if bitten).

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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2013, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ May 01 2013, 9:00 pm)
QUOTE
most healthy adults will almost always survive envenomation even without medical attention (not that I'm saying not to see a doc if bitten).

ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE !!!

Yes, most healthy adults won't die of a snakebite, given quick antivenom at $10-20,000 a vial and most bites require at least 5-6 vials to avoid loosing a limb.

I'm glad you have that kind of insurance.

I don't carry a snake since it does nothing .

I also stay snake aware in snake habitats.

Snake bites to humans in the real world, that are not provoking the attacks, are as rare as grizzly bear attacks.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 12:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Each year, approximately 8,000 venomous snakebites occur in the United States.1,2 Between 1960 and 1990, no more than 12 fatalities from snake venom poisoning were reported annually.3,4 Most snakebites occur between April and October, when outdoor activities are popular.5"

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2002/0401/p1367.html

More current poison data (on my iPad so I couldn't search for the relevant table myself, easy enough in Acrobat though)
https://aapcc.s3.amazonaws.com/pdfs....ort.pdf

The CroFAb website. I understand the cost (one source said the wholesale price was $900 per vial which for a purified IgG fraction that's then proteolytically digested and the FAbs affinity separated to provide the product is costly. We've done it for monoclonal antibodies for crystallization studies but not on the scale a commercial product requires, it's tricky.

http://www.crofab.com/

The whole IgG antivenin of the 70s was quite a bit cheaper, but had the larger allergic response potential the fragment product attempts to avoid ( some reports suggest a skin tet is not even recommended with Crofab for that reason, probably as a time saver and assuming hospital administration means support would be available we're some reaction develope.).

A 2009 report on snakebite numbers:
"Between 2001 and 2005, there were 23,676 human exposures (average = 4,735/year) to native venomous snakes in the United States reported to U.S. poison centers in all states except Hawaii: 98% were to viperid snakes and 2% to elapids. Overall, 77% of victims were male, 70% were adults >20 years, and 12% were aged less than 10 years. Sixty-five cases involved pregnant women, with rattlesnake bites resulting in moderate or greater effects in over 70%. The overall hospital admission rate was 53%. Outcomes were generally more severe with rattlesnake and copperhead envenomations and in children <6 years of age. The fatality rate of reported cases was 0.06%."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19514880
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 8:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No never have carried a snake bite kit. I just never  see too many snakes when out bping.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Alright...who brought the snake bit kit for the bears?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I thought guns were used to ward off snakes?

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't carry one for pretty much the same reasons everyone else listed. I've only had one truly close call--was very close to stepping on a rattlesnake on a trail that was rocky and covered in leaves.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.”
―W. C. Fields


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In over 30 years of desert/mountain backpacking in the Southwest, I've probably seen a dozen snakes of varying types. The idea is to watch for snakes, not look for them.

Funny though, I saw three snakes on my last overnight on the Arizona Trail last month. That's about a quarter of my total after 30 years. Here are two of them.

Western patch-nosed snake



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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The kits are inconsistent with how I was trained to treat patients with potential envenomation.
So no, I don't carry a snake bite kit.

As someone mentioned, a healthy adult will usually survive a rattlesnake bite, but the tissue damage can be very severe.  Antivenin should alway be sought to reduce the effects of the envenomation.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nope though I used to decades ago.   As someone here in California often rambling offtrail during spring at lower elevations, I often see rattlesnakes and in fact saw one young Northern Pacific a week ago and a month ago a fat Western Diamondback rs near Phoenix.  In the Sierra rattlesnakes are uncommon above 6k  so generally are not issues for backpackers in the High Sierra.  That said, have personally seen them twice about 8k in sunny granite slab exposures.  

And see good numbers of non poisonous snakes every year probably because I am not one to walk about in a day dreaming fog like many hikers but rather as a photographer  am often constantly surveying everything on my route especially little things like flowers and anything moving or making subtle sounds.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ May 02 2013, 10:15 am)
QUOTE
I thought guns were used to ward off snakes?

Nope.  Cow bells.  Same theory as bear bells but louder because snakes can't hear that well.  Works on bears too.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 2:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And please, if you get bit, do not monkey around trying to kill the snake and take it to the ER with you.  They don't want it there, just tell them it rattled.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm surprised so many stores carry the old cut and suck kits given that medical advice has been against their use for years.  You would think at some point, the stores and manufacturers would face some kind of liability for their use.  The Sawyer Extractors are not invasive, but experts also say they do not work.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

^I read an article a year or two ago in which an "expert" was quoted, sorry I can't remember any details but he was a biologist with a PhD and worked searching for snakes for several decades -- anyway, in the article he said that there is no irrefutable evidence that the Sawyer suction kits worked. Then the interviewer asked him if he carried one and he said yes absolutely, never goes into the field without it. So obviously at some level he believes they work in spite of the lack of evidence.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 7:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE



I see these guys all the time in the summer (I took this photo today), so I try to watch where I put my feet!  I've never carried a snake bite kit and don't think I'll start.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 7:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The most important factors for surviving any trauma are staying calm and having hope.  Perhaps snakebite kits provide both, allowing the victim to make a more rational decision other than running down the trail yelling "I've been bitten by a rattler, I've been bitten by a rattler, I'm gonna die!!!!"
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(Dave Senesac @ May 02 2013, 11:47 am)
QUOTE
...constantly surveying everything on my route especially little things like flowers and anything moving or making subtle sounds.

^ Trumps not paying attention and walking into a snake bite every time!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 8:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I generally just crush their heads with the heel of my boot before they have a chance to strike.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 11:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No.  Not after it was widely reported the kits didn't do much.  I still use the kit to pop big zits and boils that develop between sweaty thighs, though.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 11:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ May 02 2013, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
I generally just crush their heads with the heel of my boot before they have a chance to strike.

and I follow behind him...

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Tigger @ May 02 2013, 8:14 pm)
QUOTE

(no_granola @ May 02 2013, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
I generally just crush their heads with the heel of my boot before they have a chance to strike.

and I follow behind him...

With your skinning knife and cook kit?

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