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Topic: A Boeing 747 Crash in Afghanistan?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:34 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Warning - Viewer discretion advised!

Below is a video of an American 747 cargo jet crashing near Bagram airfield, Afghanistan.   CNN has an article on it -- but otherwise, this crash doesn't seem to be widely reported.  BBC is silent.  Disturbing, and strange.



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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Cargo plane crashed often don't make the news.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not even a jumbo 747?  I beg to differ...

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It was on the NBC morning news.  I think 7 dead.  the cargo shifted and threw the plane off and down it went.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not saying it's so, but it looks hoaxified to me.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm sure they are mentioned but are not big news items, this one is due to the video.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe I stand corrected. The movement before the crash just doesn't look like how a 747 or any plane would while in the air.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ May 02 2013, 3:50 pm)
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Maybe I stand corrected. The movement before the crash just doesn't look like how a 747 or any plane would while in the air.

All the cargo shifted back to the rear of the plane and created massive lift and then stall and then out of control and down.  All American's too.  Sad

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 3:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bad knees @ May 02 2013, 12:53 pm)
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(desert dweller @ May 02 2013, 3:50 pm)
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Maybe I stand corrected. The movement before the crash just doesn't look like how a 747 or any plane would while in the air.

All the cargo shifted back to the rear of the plane and created massive lift and then stall and then out of control and down.  All American's too.  Sad

Yes, likely.  Would be tragic if / when they trace this to human error or carelessness in securing the cargo properly!


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ May 02 2013, 3:57 pm)
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(bad knees @ May 02 2013, 12:53 pm)
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(desert dweller @ May 02 2013, 3:50 pm)
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Maybe I stand corrected. The movement before the crash just doesn't look like how a 747 or any plane would while in the air.

All the cargo shifted back to the rear of the plane and created massive lift and then stall and then out of control and down.  All American's too.  Sad

Yes, likely.  Would be tragic if / when they trace this to human error or carelessness in securing the cargo properly!

It sounds like that. Or maybe a failure of the way it locks?  I haven't heard yet.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I see no special reason to doubt the crash or the video of it. Some of the news outlets that reported it are: ABC, CBS, NPR, CNN, NBC, LA Times, FOX, CBC, Yahoo News, etc.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I heard about it two different times on radio news this morning.
Very sad.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 4:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There was some initial speculation that the video was faked, I don't recall why. Cargo shifting on takeoff is a constant worry.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 5:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 5:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ May 02 2013, 4:53 pm)
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There was some initial speculation that the video was faked, I don't recall why. Cargo shifting on takeoff is a constant worry.

Not to mention that takeoff and landing are the most dangersous times for any flight.

I would assume the aircraft had an experienced loadmaster so more than likely a failure of the netting/straps used to secure the cargo.  I'd be interested to know (although we never will) when the last weight and balance was done.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 5:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Chuck D @ May 02 2013, 5:29 pm)
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I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

Yes, I've watched C-17s practicing tactical takeoffs.  They're scary to watch, and probably even scarier to experience.  I wouldn't have thought it was even possible to fly one like that.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 5:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Cargo was reported to be 7 MRAP's at several tons each

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 6:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ May 02 2013, 3:36 pm)
QUOTE

(Chuck D @ May 02 2013, 5:29 pm)
QUOTE
I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

Yes, I've watched C-17s practicing tactical takeoffs.  They're scary to watch, and probably even scarier to experience.  I wouldn't have thought it was even possible to fly one like that.

My first impression when watching the video was that the climb was too steep for the cargo weight. If steeper ascent angles are necessary at Bagram, then I'd think that would lower the maximum cargo weight rating.

I'm not so sure the weight shifted or if the plane was simply overloaded for that steep of a climb.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 6:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ May 02 2013, 6:18 pm)
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(big_load @ May 02 2013, 3:36 pm)
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(Chuck D @ May 02 2013, 5:29 pm)
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I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

Yes, I've watched C-17s practicing tactical takeoffs.  They're scary to watch, and probably even scarier to experience.  I wouldn't have thought it was even possible to fly one like that.

My first impression when watching the video was that the climb was too steep for the cargo weight. If steeper ascent angles are necessary at Bagram, then I'd think that would lower the maximum cargo weight rating.

I'm not so sure the weight shifted or if the plane was simply overloaded for that steep of a climb.

I can't speak for a 747, but it's amazing what a C-17 can do.  The ascent angles and the fast turn on ascents look insane for as much weight as they haul, but those guys pull it off flight after flight, day after day.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 6:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow, I read this after it first happened, but hadn't heard about the cause being cargo.  I could swear the first article I read said the Taliban had already claimed responsibility?!  Likely shoddy reporting.

Also?  How is the guy with the camera so silent through all of this?  I would be crapping my pants.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 6:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ May 02 2013, 3:45 pm)
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Not saying it's so, but it looks hoaxified to me.

I kinda thought the same thing.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 6:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ May 02 2013, 4:39 pm)
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(TravisNWood @ May 02 2013, 6:18 pm)
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(big_load @ May 02 2013, 3:36 pm)
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(Chuck D @ May 02 2013, 5:29 pm)
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I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

Yes, I've watched C-17s practicing tactical takeoffs.  They're scary to watch, and probably even scarier to experience.  I wouldn't have thought it was even possible to fly one like that.

My first impression when watching the video was that the climb was too steep for the cargo weight. If steeper ascent angles are necessary at Bagram, then I'd think that would lower the maximum cargo weight rating.

I'm not so sure the weight shifted or if the plane was simply overloaded for that steep of a climb.

I can't speak for a 747, but it's amazing what a C-17 can do.  The ascent angles and the fast turn on ascents look insane for as much weight as they haul, but those guys pull it off flight after flight, day after day.

Yeah, I agree. In a former life I was ground service supervisor at a regional airport just a few miles from a large air base. We handled C-17s for the national guard, but largest commercial planes were on the order of 737s.

I had plenty of time to watch takeoffs and landings of both aircraft. But of course the viewing angle was from the side rather than as shown in the video. That large of aircraft looked deceivingly slow and heavy on takeoff. Incredible the lift those wings can generate.

But the video does appear to show a stall without enough altitude to pull out of it. I'll be interested to see what the investigation turns up.


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 7:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All indications are the cargo shifting and I've seen them chain armored vehicles onto the floor of the aircraft.  I flew into Bagram "space available" with some European armored vehicles a few years back and as the aircraft twists and turns, there's some serious forces exerted on those chains.  I could imagine the damage done if the chain came undone or something similar.  Nothing like seeing (and hearing) a multi-ton vehicle just straining to break free of it's chains or settle on it's hydraulics while in the air with it.  Nothing moved except the chains and hydraulics, but still unnerving if you aren't used to it. Something I could do without for the rest of my life...  

That it is a civilian contract 747 isn't surprising.  You see civilian contractors haul tanks and other vehicles even on our own Interstate 10 using tractor trailer rigs (and have seen an M-1 battle tank dangle off the side of one when rigged incorrectly).


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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 7:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Firedancer @ May 02 2013, 6:44 pm)
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Wow, I read this after it first happened, but hadn't heard about the cause being cargo.  I could swear the first article I read said the Taliban had already claimed responsibility?!  Likely shoddy reporting.

Also?  How is the guy with the camera so silent through all of this?  I would be crapping my pants.

The Taliban DID  claim it, but others say no, it was cargo shifting.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 02 2013, 9:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I sent the link to my dad... he flew commercial for 33 years (TWA), including cargo intermittently throughout his career as well as troop transports in and out of Vietnam, and finished as a 747 Captain. He made no speculation as to what happened other than it was sad.

It's an obvious stall and that he ran out of room to recover... beyond that is unknown at this point.

Those that have been there generally keep quiet until the NTSB investigation is released...


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(Chuck D @ May 02 2013, 4:29 pm)
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I think it was on the CNN report that it was discussed how the cargo planes taking off from Bagram used a much steeper ascent angle than normal.

Its SOP for any slow plane entering or leaving a war zone or unsecured area.

The whole intent is to get up and out of missile range asap.

The same thing when landing, nose dive that beotch and pull up at the last moment.

I got to experience both of these when I went to Algeria.

We were warned by the pilot before it happened and it still made me nearly pass out.


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