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Topic: Boy Scout saves 6 yr old from drowning, Is awarded BSA medal< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 8:24 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A boy scout was recently awarded a medal by the Boy Scouts National Council for saving a life.  He rescued a 6 yr old boy with down syndrome and autism who was drowning.

http://www.corning-observer.com/articles/call-14380-scouts-quaid.html

There's a lot of lashing out against Scouting lately and I thought this was a positive story about scouting that should be shared.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

[
QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.

QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.

So absent whatever the scouts allegedly taught him (swimming? that's more the Red Cross's thing) he'd have left the boy drown?

I doubt it. That's more personal character than group affiliation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe the suggestion is that if he was an atheist or a homosexual he would not have been a Boy Scout and probably would have let the kid drown.  Or maybe if the kid was an atheist or homosexual the heterosexual god-believing Boy Scout would have let the atheist homosexual drown the way god intended.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow.  BSA is clearly a hot-button topic for some folks.  They simply cannot resist turning an act of heroism on its head to make a rabid political point.

And BTW, the point of BSA is to build character, develop citizenship, and promote mental and physical fitness.   I think this 11 yr old kid displayed all three in spades.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:11 pm)
QUOTE

(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.

QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.

So absent whatever the scouts allegedly taught him (swimming? that's more the Red Cross's thing) he'd have left the boy drown?

I doubt it. That's more personal character than group affiliation.

There are news reports everyday of situations where people fail to act.

I, myself, have saved a couple of people while others merely stood on the sidelines. I credit my training in Civil Air Patrol and as a lifeguard. Training to act and keep your head, not skills such as swimming and first aid.

The kid credits his BSA training. I'll take him at his word.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 1:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seth saw another kid drowning and saved him.  Simply and marvelously.  Seth credited his scout training.

And some of the adults here just have to do their armchair politicking. Those here with an axe to grind just have to create a strawman so they can attack the scouts.  Shameful.  Mean spirited.  And completely idiotic.

Folks should feel exactly the same for Seth if he had attributed his good deed to training from scouts, wiccans, atheists, or just plain ol' municipal summer swimming lessons!


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 1:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:54 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:11 pm)
QUOTE

(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.

QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.

So absent whatever the scouts allegedly taught him (swimming? that's more the Red Cross's thing) he'd have left the boy drown?

I doubt it. That's more personal character than group affiliation.

There are news reports everyday of situations where people fail to act.

I, myself, have saved a couple of people while others merely stood on the sidelines. I credit my training in Civil Air Patrol and as a lifeguard. Training to act and keep your head, not skills such as swimming and first aid.

The kid credits his BSA training. I'll take him at his word.

And other reports where they act...


They're giving him a party and a medal, so of course he says nice things. Kids character is he's polite and rather brave.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 1:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And what would the Boy Scouts say to Seth if he said "I'm a homosexual" or "I'm an atheist"?  

the Boy Scouts would tell Seth "life saver or not, you are not welcomed here."

Some adults are attempting to use a child's courage and brave act to excuse their bigotry and ignorance.  "Look at us, we aren't that bad.  The kids we do let into our organization become heroes.  So don't beat us up over excluding those homos and sinners."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 3:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 11 2013, 1:58 pm)
QUOTE
And what would the Boy Scouts say to Seth if he said "I'm a homosexual" or "I'm an atheist"?  

the Boy Scouts would tell Seth "life saver or not, you are not welcomed here."

Some adults are attempting to use a child's courage and brave act to excuse their bigotry and ignorance.  "Look at us, we aren't that bad.  The kids we do let into our organization become heroes.  So don't beat us up over excluding those homos and sinners."

Ummm, does a kid who's 11 yrs old really understand if he's homo, hetero, bi, or whatever?

And FYI, BSA has voted to accept gay scouts and prohibit their exclusion by any chartering organization.  So try again.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 4:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Jul. 11 2013, 3:13 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 11 2013, 1:58 pm)
QUOTE
And what would the Boy Scouts say to Seth if he said "I'm a homosexual" or "I'm an atheist"?  

the Boy Scouts would tell Seth "life saver or not, you are not welcomed here."

Some adults are attempting to use a child's courage and brave act to excuse their bigotry and ignorance.  "Look at us, we aren't that bad.  The kids we do let into our organization become heroes.  So don't beat us up over excluding those homos and sinners."

Ummm, does a kid who's 11 yrs old really understand if he's homo, hetero, bi, or whatever?

And FYI, BSA has voted to accept gay scouts and prohibit their exclusion by any chartering organization.  So try again.

Until Seth turns 18 or becomes an atheist - which ever happens first - then his life saver character isn't good enough to be a scout.

and if kids can't know their sexual orientation then what the hell was the rationale for the ban on gays about in the first place?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 4:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ken, I think you started this twisting tale by opening this with the bashing and sharing comment.  Should've known better.  :)

Glad the kid had training and saved another life.  I am not sure how the victim's afflictions mattered, but it adds another feel good to the tale.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 11 2013, 5:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 10:11 am)
QUOTE

(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.

QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.

So absent whatever the scouts allegedly taught him (swimming? that's more the Red Cross's thing) he'd have left the boy drown?

I doubt it. That's more personal character than group affiliation.

So the scouts honor an individual member who shows strong personal character and save someone's life.

Good for them.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 1:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Jul. 11 2013, 5:31 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 10:11 am)
QUOTE

(WalksWithBlackflies @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE
The premise being if he'd not been a scout he'd have left the other boy drown?

Probably not.

QUOTE
A member of Cub Scouts Troop 108, Call said because of his training in scouts he had the experience, knowledge and ability to act when necessary.

So absent whatever the scouts allegedly taught him (swimming? that's more the Red Cross's thing) he'd have left the boy drown?

I doubt it. That's more personal character than group affiliation.

So the scouts honor an individual member who shows strong personal character and save someone's life.

Good for them.

I'm disappointed LB. You are usually the first person to speak out when someone brings the TPA to the THR. This thread, and a couple of others, is nothing but KenV's passive/aggressive way of doing just that.

Kudos to the kid for doing a good deed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 8:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 11 2013, 4:44 pm)
QUOTE
Until Seth turns 18 or becomes an atheist - which ever happens first - then his life saver character isn't good enough to be a scout.

"good enough"!!   That sir is YOUR characterization, not the BSA's.   May I add that YOUR characterization is rather judgmental.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 8:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jul. 11 2013, 4:53 pm)
QUOTE
Ken, I think you started this twisting tale by opening this with the bashing and sharing comment.  Should've known better.  :)

Indeed.  I'm guessing the "twisting" would have happened anyway had I left out that comment, but the pooch is screwed and now we'll never know.


QUOTE
Glad the kid had training and saved another life.  I am not sure how the victim's afflictions mattered, but it adds another feel good to the tale.
Good point, and your point applies just as well to his age.  A child is more "helpless" and thus more of a "victim" than an adult.  Thus the age of the "victim" plays into the "feel good" of this account.  The fact that the child also had multiple disabilities increased the "feel good" factor.  I'm guessing that had the victim been a pregnant female, that would also have increased the "feel good" factor.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 8:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cgaphiker @ Jul. 12 2013, 1:30 am)
QUOTE
I'm disappointed LB. You are usually the first person to speak out when someone brings the TPA to the THR. This thread, and a couple of others, is nothing but KenV's passive/aggressive way of doing just that.

Kudos to the kid for doing a good deed.

Wow.  I'm disappointed also.  Somehow, an account of an 11 yr old kid saving someone's life belongs in a "political arena".  All I can say is, WOW.

If my OP was "passive/aggressive" how would you describe your post?  active/aggressive maybe?

And may I inquire which of my "other threads" you have judged to be "passive/aggressive"?   And why do you believe such judgments are proper?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 9:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

IMHO this did not start out as a political thread, and I saw no reason to make it one.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 9:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Jul. 12 2013, 8:22 am)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 11 2013, 4:44 pm)
QUOTE
Until Seth turns 18 or becomes an atheist - which ever happens first - then his life saver character isn't good enough to be a scout.

"good enough"!!   That sir is YOUR characterization, not the BSA's.   May I add that YOUR characterization is rather judgmental.

No, it is not my characterization - it is the official policy of the BSA - no atheist and no adult gays.

Are you not aware of the official policies of the BSA?

Your OP is not a celebration of the bravery or courage or character of the Seth, but rather an attempt to justify the ignorance and bigotry of the BSA.

Your OP is no different that this:

Klansman saves elderly person from mugging

A Klansman was recently awarded two good-citizen citations for saving an elderly person from a mugging.

http://articles.philly.com/1990-12....mugging

There's a lot of lashing out against Klansman lately and I thought this was a positive story about Klansman that should be shared.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 10:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 12 2013, 9:37 am)
QUOTE
No, it is not my characterization - it is the official policy of the BSA - no atheist and no adult gays.

Please take your judgmental attitude elsewherre.  Nowhere has BSA stated, suggested, or implied that folks denied membership are "not good enough".  All girls are denied membership in Cub and Boy Scouting (they may become members of Venturing and Exploring at age 14.)  Boys are denied membership when they turn 18. NONE of this has ANYthing to do with not being "good enough".  That is YOUR (false) characterization.

And BTW, your story about the klansman?  Don't you think it rather strongly supports my position that YOU are being judgmental?  The folks who rescinded the awards from this citizen made a knee-jerk political reaction and judged the man a racist without ever bothereing to check the facts.  Just like you.

And incidentally, by citing that article, you appear to have made the judgment that the 11 yr old boy is a homophobic religious bigot who should have any awards or other recognition for his heroism stripped from him.  Nope, that's not judgmental at all.  Not at all.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 10:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Jul. 12 2013, 10:28 am)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jul. 12 2013, 9:37 am)
QUOTE
No, it is not my characterization - it is the official policy of the BSA - no atheist and no adult gays.

Please take your judgmental attitude elsewherre.  Nowhere has BSA stated, suggested, or implied that folks denied membership are "not good enough".  All girls are denied membership in Cub and Boy Scouting (they may become members of Venturing at age 14.)  Boys are denied membership when they turn 18. NONE of this has ANYthing to do with not being "good enough".  That is YOUR (false) characterization.

So the BSA excludes people for no reason?  Just an arbitrary drawing of lines?  If they excluded black people you'd claim the same thing.

They aren't saying "black people" aren't good enough to be boy scouts..blah..blah..blah..."

We can perceive the ignorance and bigotry of the BSA from its actions and official polices, we don't need the BSA to openly admit it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 12 2013, 10:35 am)
QUOTE
So the BSA excludes people for no reason?  

Utterly FALSE.  Again.

QUOTE
Just an arbitrary drawing of lines?
Not arbitrary at all.  BSA has a mission.  Their mission focusses on boys and focusses on certain values.  Girls don't fit into the mission of cub scouting and boy scouting.  Boys over 18 don't fit that mission either, as does atheism.  

QUOTE
If they excluded black people you'd claim the same thing.
Another declaration that is both utterly false and contradictory to the actual facts.  Or was this an exceedinlgy lame strawman?

QUOTE
We can perceive the ignorance and bigotry of the BSA from its actions and official polices, we don't need the BSA to openly admit it.
And "We can perceive the ignorance and bigotry of some forum members from their judgmental actions" on this forum.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 12 2013, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One more point about the alleged "arbitrary" nature of the BSA joining requirements for its various programs.

Each BSA program has a generally common mission, but very different focus areas.

The focus of the Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting programs makes girls and atheism incompatible with those programs.  All girls and (generally) boys under 7 and 11 or over are excluded from cubbing and boys under 11 and 18 or over are excluded from scouting.

The focus of the Venturing and Exploring programs includes girls.  Girls and boys under age 14 are excluded as are boys and girls 20 or over.  Atheism is not compatible with Venturing, but IS compatible (and IS accepted) in Exploring.

In my opinion this attack is similar to the attack on Planned Parenthood's women's health division because they have another division that offers abortions.  It's my view that the broad brush attack on BSA is just as stupid, ill informed, narrow minded, and judgmental as the broad brush attack on Planned Parenthood.  It's interesting how similar extremists are, be they left or right.

In the meantime I think (at least most of us) can agree that the 11 yr old did something both brave and commendable and his actions deserve being recognized.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 17 2013, 2:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 11 2013, 12:14 pm)
QUOTE
Maybe the suggestion is that if he was an atheist or a homosexual he would not have been a Boy Scout and probably would have let the kid drown.  Or maybe if the kid was an atheist or homosexual the heterosexual god-believing Boy Scout would have let the atheist homosexual drown the way god intended.

Hmmmm.

Hey nogods, in the Porn-addicted lawyer sues Apple thread you expressed moral outrage when I allegedly "pissed all over" that thread.  And here you are pissing all over my thread.

Some would  call that hypocrisy.  Others inconsistency.   What do you call it?

You also accused me of "running away" rather than answering your question in the lawyer suing Apple thread.    I answered your question in post 45 of the boy scout/dead bear thread.  No reply?  So who's running?

http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....5;st=45
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 17 2013, 2:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jul. 11 2013, 4:53 pm)
QUOTE
Ken, I think you started this twisting tale by opening this with the bashing and sharing comment.  Should've known better.  :)

I agree that I "should've known better. "

I took your suggestion to heart in another thread.  I punctiliously avoided stating anything that could remotely be construed as poliltcal, moral, or religious.  It didn't work.  Folks with an agenda still pissed all over my thread.

Any suggestions on how to account for that?
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