SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: There's a big puddle at the North Pole right now, Time lapse to prove it...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 3:45 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As you may or may-not know, Arctic Sea Ice (the floating pack-ice that covers most the frigid Arctic Ocean) has been melting in recent years, exposing a lot more open ocean than there used to be.  Summer 2012 was (another) record year of minimum sea ice extent since reliable measurements began.  2013 hasn't been as hot as 2012, it's been considerably more "normal" with a very cool Spring in May/June, but that hasn't stopped the Sea Ice from retreating.  Even given less extraordinary weather, right now the 2013 ice extent is approaching the 2012 line.  How will it turn out come September?  Hard to say just yet.

From the NSIDC's Daily Updated Arctic Sea Ice Extent


The North Pole Environmental Observatory is a set of instruments that the University of WA places at the Geographic North Pole each year to monitor conditions there, including a time-lapse camera.  Right now this summer, the North Pole Station is sitting in a giant puddle in the middle of the ice.  That's normal for ice at lower-latitudes that partially melts every summer, but it's rather unique for the North Pole Observatory station.

Don't take my word for it, watch the time-lapse yourself:

North Pole is Now a Lake  (QuickTime time lapse partway down the page.)

Just thought I'd share,

- Mike


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 2
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 4:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are few instances where I am glad to be an old man and not long for this Earth.  Climate Change is one of those times.  I cannot see anything good coming from this, except my own passing.  

--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16717
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 9:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jul. 25 2013, 2:10 pm)
QUOTE
There are few instances where I am glad to be an old man and not long for this Earth.  Climate Change is one of those times.  I cannot see anything good coming from this, except my own passing.  

Those were pretty much my sentiments when I read about the North Pole puddle this morning. I suspect I'll live long enough to witness far more than I wish. Seems that is already true.

--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
mtngrl Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3997
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 11:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow, remember how hard it use to be to find the Northwest passage?  If those exploreres could see the ice melt now.

--------------
”Every tree was dripping and the creeks had swollen. It occurred to me that I had achieved a rare thing: I was living at the center of my heart’s geography. And I knew it.”- Bryce Andrews, Badluck Way
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(mtngrl @ Jul. 26 2013, 9:12 am)
QUOTE
Wow, remember how hard it use to be to find the Northwest passage?  If those exploreres could see the ice melt now.

In 1850 huge armored timber ships like the "HMS Resolute" were chartered to explore around Arctic Canada in search of the northwest passage.  Most ships were lost, crushed or irrevocably stuck in fast sea ice.

In 2007, the personal sailing yacht "Cloud Nine" sailed through the NW Passage in one summer.  (I don't think the 19th-century Brits would've named their vessel "Cloud Nine." :D)

In Summer 2012, you could do that without bumping into any ice at all.

Times have certainly changed.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 6
MsDoolittle Search for posts by this member.
Don't mess with a girl and her shovel
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 13518
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We're screwed.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(MsDoolittle @ Jul. 26 2013, 11:24 am)
QUOTE
We're screwed.

Well, more accurately, Santa is screwed.

But I think he summers in the Bahamas anyway, so maybe he's doing okay right now.


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 8
MsDoolittle Search for posts by this member.
Don't mess with a girl and her shovel
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 13518
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 26 2013, 11:38 am)
QUOTE

(MsDoolittle @ Jul. 26 2013, 11:24 am)
QUOTE
We're screwed.

Well, more accurately, Santa is screwed.

But I think he summers in the Bahamas anyway, so maybe he's doing okay right now.

:laugh:
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
johnhens Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5144
Joined: Jan. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 4:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It would be fun to fly to the NP and bring a kayak to be the first to paddle "over" the NP!
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
SW Mtn backpacker Search for posts by this member.
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7314
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There's a new course for school kids.  Recent historic geography (kids, there used to be a place called the "Arctic", that had this stuff called "ice" ..... )

--------------
Usually Southwest and then some.

In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
orygawn Search for posts by this member.
Sleeping Bag Man!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6034
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 5:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to worry.  Governments and corporations around the world are springing to action on this news.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
treelinebackpacker Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 785
Joined: Aug. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 6:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Actually the North Pole ends up under water quite frequently. It's a seasonal-ish thing. That's why the marker is designed to float.
The ice is still intact below, it's just the tops melted and floats on the massive ice sheet below.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
reubenstump Search for posts by this member.
Lago Grey
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2277
Joined: Sep. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 8:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The only point on which I disagree with Zeke is that I don't blame it on Joe Dumars.

I'm not as old as Zeke, but I'm getting there.  I don't like thinking about what this planet will be like in a couple of hundred years.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Roger Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2108
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 8:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well I happen to be a few years older than Zeke.  There are times that I am happy that I am not leaving any children to face the environmental disaster that it seems we are heading for in the not to distance future.  

Back in the 1960s when I was a biology major we talked about the greenhouse effect and global warming.  At that time it was a theory without data.  To be fair we were also taking about nuclear winter.


--------------
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” -Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6763
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 3:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That could still happen also!  Either by human stupidity, or by natural events.

The universe is a violent place.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
DerekD Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: Jul. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 9:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jul. 25 2013, 3:10 pm)
QUOTE
There are few instances where I am glad to be an old man and not long for this Earth.  Climate Change is one of those times.  I cannot see anything good coming from this, except my own passing.  

X2

Very wise statement
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
IceAgeHiker Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 148
Joined: Jan. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 12:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh boy, gotta be a contrarian here...

Uh, what's the big deal?  Climates, by nature, CHANGE all the time; what we have now is merely temporary.  We're still coming out of an Ice Age (hell, we may still be in the Ice Age), and the Earth will get much warmer whether humans play a part in it or not.

Oh, and 3.5 million years ago the Arctic was a much different place, here's one example: camel fossil found in Arctic.  I believe it was even warmer before that, as during much of the current Cenozoic Era what are now the Great Plains and Midwest in the US was an Africa-like sub-tropical savannah.  I would say that frozen poles is an abnormal condition for the Earth.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 18
SW Mtn backpacker Search for posts by this member.
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7314
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 27 2013, 12:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(IceAgeHiker @ Jul. 27 2013, 10:20 am)
QUOTE
Oh boy, gotta be a contrarian here...

Uh, what's the big deal?  Climates, by nature, CHANGE all the time; what we have now is merely temporary.

Yeah, but unlike some on this board, I wasn't around during the Cambrian explosion 350,000,000 years ago.   With geological time, there's time for species to adjust; not saying it's going to kill us but it can make life far more expensive (Dutch firms have already set up offices in Miami for the inevitable seawalls).   There will be other consequences too.   I remember in the late 1990's where June was the ideal time to backpack the inner Southwest; now most of the forests are closed 2 out of every 3 years.

I may need to change my screen-name to "search for water"

Add, I see there is a TPA thread on this, so I won't add any further here:


--------------
Usually Southwest and then some.

In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
GoBlueHiker Search for posts by this member.
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16557
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 29 2013, 12:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(IceAgeHiker @ Jul. 27 2013, 10:20 am)
QUOTE
Oh boy, gotta be a contrarian here...

Uh, what's the big deal?  Climates, by nature, CHANGE all the time; what we have now is merely temporary.  We're still coming out of an Ice Age (hell, we may still be in the Ice Age), and the Earth will get much warmer whether humans play a part in it or not.

Oh, and 3.5 million years ago the Arctic was a much different place, here's one example: camel fossil found in Arctic.  I believe it was even warmer before that, as during much of the current Cenozoic Era what are now the Great Plains and Midwest in the US was an Africa-like sub-tropical savannah.  I would say that frozen poles is an abnormal condition for the Earth.

I don't expect to change your opinion (I gave up on that in general long ago... people believe what they want to believe), but I would like to explain my own take on it, based on the evidence and research I've seen.

Yes, you're right, global climate changes.  However, it's important to note that very stable climate we've enjoyed in the Holocene Epoch (the past 10-12 Ka) is what allowed the rapid spread of humanity and the rise of stable civilization around the world.  Lots of events in our Earth's distant past made living very difficult.  Huge temperature and climate swings, mass extinctions, dramatic droughts and severe violent weather were all part of our geologic past.  Just because a meteor struck the earth 65 Ma ago and caused mass extinctions doesn't mean I wouldn't worry if it happened again.  The "it's happened before" argument doesn't really help anything when you take a look at how hard life was for the planet during those more chaotic periods, or the fact that widespread global civilization has never, ever experienced that in its history.  All of our written and oral history as a species developed within the stable climate of the Holocene.  Again, that's not a coincidence.

Camels on Ellesmere Island aren't evidence of anything, other than a cold-weather-adapted species (different from today's warm-weather camels) that went extinct some time ago.  The existence of tropical elephants today doesn't say anything about the climate that wooly mammoths lived in, any more than desert camels vs. extinct Arctic camels say anything about climate.  That's a pointless non-sequitor.

The statement "I would say that frozen poles is an abnormal condition for the Earth" is based on little more than your own opinion.  The data speaks otherwise.  Were temps warmer in the distant past before the stable Holocene Epoch?  Sure.  Does that mean it's "no big deal" if we brush aside that stability and quickly push the planet that way again?  Not so fast.

What we're doing now with CO2, is pushing the radiative forcing of our atmosphere way out of natural cycles.  The levels are far beyond anything we've seen in the Holocene or even the last million years before it.



CO2 was, in fact, higher in the distant geologic past (many millions of years ago).  But simply extrapolating that "we'll all be fine" ignores the fact that civilization would've had an extremely difficult time living peacefully and abundantly during most of those periods.  Stable global agriculture?  Please.  As SW_Mtn alluded to, the severe pace of these changes compared to geologic time is most concerning of all.

We're changing things very much faster right now than the majority of species are able to adapt to.  Mass extinctions are already starting to happen (far more due to habitat destruction, which exacerbates the climate affect).  Climate is already starting to change.  These aren't modeled projections, they're measured reality.  Everyone I know in every branch of the geophysical earth sciences is seeing changes, my own field certainly included.  "The Earth" as a whole will tick on beyond us, no doubt.  Some of the more hardy populations within certain species will adapt, fill new niches, and within millions of years new species will form and the Earth will be dandy, just like it was millions of year after the last mass extinction from a giant meteor.  But again, I'm not wanting to push us in that direction quite so quickly, given that (unlike a meteor) we actually have the chance to do something about this issue.  I disagree very strongly with the notion of "it's no big deal."  It's already a big deal to anyone paying attention to what's already going on.

My $.02,

- Mike


--------------
Wealth needs more.  Happiness needs less.  Simplify.

www.RainForestTreks.com
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
18 replies since Jul. 25 2013, 3:45 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply There's a big puddle at the North Pole right now
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions