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Topic: impatient injured hiker calls in private chopper< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 4:53 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Injured hiker finds rescuers too slow, upgrades to private helicopter
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 4:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If she's fine paying the private bill, more power to her.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 4:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Her money, her choice and given carrying people is never all that much fun she did a favor for the responders as well.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder if she was in much pain.  That could have been more of an issue than speed.  A long, bumpy ride in a Stokes litter can be pretty bad with some injuries.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Jul. 25 2013, 3:09 pm)
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I wonder if she was in much pain.  That could have been more of an issue than speed.  A long, bumpy ride in a Stokes litter can be pretty bad with some injuries.

That's kinda what I was thinking.  She's in pain, is tired of being jarred down the hill, would like to get treated, would like to be done with the trip, and decided "**** this, I'm calling for a ride."

I'm not implying the rescuers were doing anything wrong.  Not at all.  They'd have gotten her down the mountain just fine.  But if she wanted to make a call and make it quicker--and was willing to pay for it--hey, that's her call, IMO.  I don't doubt the responders were a bit relieved.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Are there any rules to prevent people from calling a taxi just for the ride home?  How severely do they need to be injured?  Is exhausted enough?  What about tired? What about a blister?  Or are there no limits - can I take a ride up and down?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 25 2013, 3:20 pm)
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Are there any rules to prevent people from calling a taxi just for the ride home?  How severely do they need to be injured?  Is exhausted enough?  What about tired? What about a blister?  Or are there no limits - can I take a ride up and down?

If you want to call a private chopper and have them privately pick you up with you privately paying, with no other involvement from a public agency other than the permission to do so (which seems to have been granted in this case because she was genuinely injured and she could ease the job of the rescue crew immediately by doing so)?  Go right ahead.

Sometimes I think you like to argue things just to argue.  I fail to see the big controversy in this one.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Should have known that they would have turned out to be Texans  :p

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 5:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 25 2013, 5:25 pm)
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(nogods @ Jul. 25 2013, 3:20 pm)
QUOTE
Are there any rules to prevent people from calling a taxi just for the ride home?  How severely do they need to be injured?  Is exhausted enough?  What about tired? What about a blister?  Or are there no limits - can I take a ride up and down?

If you want to call a private chopper and have them privately pick you up with you privately paying, with no other involvement from a public agency other than the permission to do so (which seems to have been granted in this case because she was genuinely injured and she could ease the job of the rescue crew immediately by doing so)?  Go right ahead.

Sometimes I think you like to argue things just to argue.  I fail to see the big controversy in this one.

Let's focus on your qualification "with permission to do so..."

We don't allow government agencies to make arbitrary determinations under our constitution. So what's the criteria?

If there is no criteria, then no one needs permission.  Choppers will be allowed to freely transport people up and down the mountain.

I'd guess that the land managers would find such a situation unacceptable, so they need to develop criteria if they don't already have any.

Just because you can't reason out an issue and possible resolutions doesn't mean I'm being argumentative.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 7:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Helicopter access to, say, federally designated wilderness is controlled and restricted under the Wilderness Act and followup legislation both as to altitude for flyovers and whether landing is allowed. Whether Gifford Pinchot National Forest has such including St. Helens I can't say.

IIRC there are helicopter tours but overflights are a somewhat separate issue from landing and picking up passengers.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 11:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jul. 25 2013, 3:37 pm)
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We don't allow government agencies to make arbitrary determinations under our constitution. So what's the criteria?

Oh good grief.  Government officials make case-by-case decisions all the time.  The word "arbitrary" is only your personal opinion, and there's nothing in the constitution whatsoever that forbids them from making said administrative decisions when situations arise that require such a decision.

You simply don't like it and would rather spend your time arguing about it, which you seem to have an undying need to do lately for reasons unknown.  Have fun.

I still don't see anything terribly controversial about this case, and I'm not the one making stuff up just to argue.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 11:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The original version is a whole lot less judgmental than the MSN one.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific....ff.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 11:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 25 2013, 9:14 pm)
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The original version is a whole lot less judgmental than the MSN one.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific....ff.html

According to that article:
    The helicopter company makes several such flights per year at the rescuers request.
    The rescuers were the ones to contact the company after the lady requested the flight.
    And the lady is paying to fly one of the rescuers out also.
What seems most unusual is the lady's willingness to pay for the helicopter rescue. I'm not so sure it was such a bad idea.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 25 2013, 11:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jul. 25 2013, 11:14 pm)
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The original version is a whole lot less judgmental than the MSN one.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific....ff.html

I would guess if they spent the night there in just shorts and a tee-shirts, they were pretty miserable...that said, my ethnic heritage and upbringing would probably prohibit me from paying USD 1300 unless it was a life or limb situation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd say. It's a great learning opportunity for all those involved. Good practice for the helicopter pilot, the helicopter crew, the medical technician plus the volunteers If she is willing to pay for it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 2:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Her money, she can do as she pleases. Although some of the comments on MSN were ignorant, and did not make any sense given the assumptions some were making.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 7:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Roscue2 @ Jul. 26 2013, 2:41 am)
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.....some of the comments on MSN were ignorant, and did not make any sense given the assumptions some were making.

Sadly, so were some of the comments on this forum.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 9:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am really surprised at the price.  $1300 seems pretty reasonable.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(2PawsRiver @ Jul. 26 2013, 7:39 am)
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I am really surprised at the price.  $1300 seems pretty reasonable.

That was my thought too.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 10:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm convinced the term "impatient" in the thread's title is neither an accurate nor a fair description.  One could even describe it as unreasonably judgmental.

One woman had taken a bad fall, had multiple injuries, and was unable to continue.  Neither woman was equipped for the current weather conditions.   Both had spent a cold night on the mountain in shorts and T shirt with no camping gear (they had planned the excursion as a day hike).  I think it was reasonable for them to request (and pesonally pay for) a helicopter extraction.  The rescue/EMT personnel on the scene clearly agreed and so they arranged for the extraction with a local helicopter company who routinely makes such extractions (several per month.)

So what's the big deal?
And why the judgmental attitude?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 10:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree $1300 is pretty cheap!

Anyhow, unless one has hiked in the Helens area they shouldn't be griping. It isn't in a wilderness area. Coming down Helens when it is snow free is tedious, dusty and is a slew of volcanic dust, rocks and other fun stuff.

She didn't demand a military chopper come get her for free (which in the Cascades does happen for severely injured climbers - it is used as training). I say, STFU.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 11:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi...


Anyone can become injured. But, otherwise, weren't they just totally unprepared?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Jul. 26 2013, 6:53 am)
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(2PawsRiver @ Jul. 26 2013, 7:39 am)
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I am really surprised at the price.  $1300 seems pretty reasonable.

That was my thought too.

Short flight with a small aircraft based close.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

On our Alaska trips we have always rented a plane for a fly in.  The plane is $650 an hour and they are doing flights all day.  

$1,000 an hour for an unscheduled specialized flight, add in the possibility that there is more then one pilot and some specialized training, seems real fair.

When we bought a spot locator we also purchased the rescue insurance.....I'm thinking it covered two incidents, up to 100 thousand a year....if it didn't have the twice per year limit, heck we could do a bunch of one way hikes in and fly out.    :-)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well and also considering it was a helicopter with the higher maintenance overhead even the smaller versions have versus a fixed wing.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I heard they shot some wolves from the copter on the way back.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Any reports of hikers hearing Wagner?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 26 2013, 1:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Pathfinder1 @ Jul. 26 2013, 11:49 am)
QUOTE
Hi...


Anyone can become injured. But, otherwise, weren't they just totally unprepared?

Unprepared?  No doubt.  But I've taken many a day hike unprepared for an overnight stay, although not as unprepared as these two women.  I always carry some extra food & water, some warm clothes, a space blanket and some other "10 essentials".  But I've never taken a bad fall on the trail and broken a leg or ankle.   I don't know how well I'd do under that set of circumstances and whether I'd call for a helicopter.  These ladies were simply not counting on taking a bad fall (and who is counting on that?) and getting injured to the point of not being able to hike out.  I think a self-paid helo extraction is quite reasonable under these circumstances.
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(2PawsRiver @ Jul. 26 2013, 9:39 am)
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I am really surprised at the price.  $1300 seems pretty reasonable.

That's a pretty typical rate for a light helicopter rental.

The rescue helo was a Bell 206 Jet Ranger.  These come in twin engine and single engine versions.  But the single engine is by far the most popular.

A single engine Eurocopter EC120 rents for $1000/hr (daytime) to $1500/hr (night time).   Considering this was in a mountainous area with some unusual risks requiring a pilot with some extra experience, $1000/hr is a very reasonable rate.  The pilot definitely did not "take advantage" of two ladies in a bad situation.

LINK

And yes, rotary wing maintenance costs are significantly higher than fixed wing maintenance costs which is reflected in the rental rates.
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(KenV @ Jul. 26 2013, 2:16 pm)
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  Considering this was in a mountainous area with some unusual risks requiring a pilot with some extra experience, $1000/hr is a very reasonable rate.  The pilot definitely did not "take advantage" of two ladies in a bad situation.

Which is possibly why they didn't helo the whole way.  I was looking for any clues that the density altitude was too high for the equipment at the site of injury or any nearby area with adequate clearance.  There's not much to go on  in that regard.
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