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Topic: Outdoor Group Trashes CO wilderness, Hold them accountable< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:16 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Apparently, a company in Texas that organizes sports-related outings sent a group of 50 to the Crestone peaks area in southern Colorado. The group camped at Willow Lake, which is the camp area for people attempting to climb Kit Carson Peak and Challenger Peak nearby (both 14ers).

Reports on 14ers.com state that the campers pretty much pooped everywhere, well within the 300 ft radius of the nearest water sources, and did not use cat holes. It sounds like a real mess up there.

The company is called Camp Gladiator.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ugh. That's really awful.

I'll bet that the USFS has restrictions on party size. I went in from the Music Pass trailhead, not far from there at all, a few weeks ago. That is NPS land, and they did have explict party size limitations posted (applying to both persons and stock).

The company should definitely be fined by the USFS to defray cleanup costs.

That's a stunningly beautiful area--it makes me sick to think that someone messed it up.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Since 14ers.com doesn't have a search feature on their forums, a link would be helpful...
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Lordy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF-bixAYCrg

Maybe post some interesting poop photos to their wall?

https://www.facebook.com/CampGladiator
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Aug. 20 2013, 1:16 pm)
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The company is called Camp Gladiator.

Send in the lions.

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Lamebeaver @ Aug. 20 2013, 1:27 pm)
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Since 14ers.com doesn't have a search feature on their forums, a link would be helpful...

10 Pages Worth

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:33 pm)
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That's not Willow Lake in the Youtube video--they're in the South Colony drainage. Must have been a different trip.

But their party size is clearly ridiculous nonetheless.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 20 2013, 12:40 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:33 pm)
QUOTE

That's not Willow Lake in the Youtube video--they're in the South Colony drainage. Must have been a different trip.

But their party size is clearly ridiculous nonetheless.

Thanks, I went with the video title and didn't think to check the date. It was uploaded in September 2010.
"Camp Gladiator 14er trip to Crestone Needle"

So you're right, previous trip.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I just made a post on their FB page linking the 14ers.com thread that SWT linked. We'll see if that generates any response.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 3:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Of course other than social media pressure, which can be very effective, it would be great if there was a big stick in the form of a land management agency that can be looped into something like that. A commercial operation has to be getting a use permit from somebody I'd think. Especially for fifty people in one group (per their own FB post about that trip, and OBTW: the dates and destination peaks, at least, match),... Yikes.
?
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Some people just don't think the rules apply to them.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(QCHIKER @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:06 pm)
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Some people just don't think the rules apply to them.

Yeah.  Although on the same page, many just don't really know the rules.  Ignorance isn't a good excuse (especially for large organized group), but it's at least curable.  Whereas the "i-dun't-give-a-crap" thing is less-so.

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That didn't take long--my post to their Facebook page has been deleted. I emailed them asking about this incident and suggesting that, if true, rather than cover it up, they acknowledge it and do something about making sure it doesn't happen again.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Aug. 20 2013, 4:10 pm)
QUOTE

(QCHIKER @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE
Some people just don't think the rules apply to them.

Yeah.  Although on the same page, many just don't really know the rules.  Ignorance isn't a good excuse (especially for large organized group), but it's at least curable.  Whereas the "i-dun't-give-a-crap" thing is less-so.

Pun intended?

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Who's the land management agency for that location?
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

USFS. It's in the Sangre de Cristo Wilderness.

Rio Grande National Forest, Sauguche ranger district. (719) 655-2553.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:18 pm)
QUOTE

(GoBlueHiker @ Aug. 20 2013, 4:10 pm)
QUOTE

(QCHIKER @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE
Some people just don't think the rules apply to them.

Yeah.  Although on the same page, many just don't really know the rules.  Ignorance isn't a good excuse (especially for large organized group), but it's at least curable.  Whereas the "i-dun't-give-a-crap" thing is less-so.

Pun intended?

:laugh: Actually, no.  But I guess it fits.

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, their web site says (719) 655-2547. The other number I posted might be outdated.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 4:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 20 2013, 2:15 pm)
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... and suggesting that, if true, rather than cover it up, they acknowledge it and do something about making sure it doesn't happen again.

Actually they are trying to cover it up a little too late.  Sounds like the group is operating without knowledge of current USFS regs and LNT principles.  I'm sure an official inquiry with a subpoena to the company officers will rectify the situation.  Busses of central Texans isn't uncommon at least in New Mexico due to splitting the bus/driver cost ... but most divide into smaller official ability groups

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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 5:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Aug. 20 2013, 1:15 pm)
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That didn't take long--my post to their Facebook page has been deleted. I emailed them asking about this incident and suggesting that, if true, rather than cover it up, they acknowledge it and do something about making sure it doesn't happen again.

And after a few more comments lambasting them (which have been deleted), that post is now closed to comments. Sadly typical.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 6:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the heads up about this issue.  A poster on the 14ers thread claiming to be with the company basically deflected any blame to other campers in the area and the renegade people that may have possibly been with their group.  Read like a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 7:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(OverUnder @ Aug. 20 2013, 6:15 pm)
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Thanks for the heads up about this issue.  A poster on the 14ers thread claiming to be with the company basically deflected any blame to other campers in the area and the renegade people that may have possibly been with their group.  Read like a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo.

I read that. How pathetic.

Why is it so hard for corporations to admit when they screw up?

This whole deny/deflect strategy is going to blow up in their face. People are pissed about this, for good reason.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 8:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If they call themselves an outdoor group and are promoting outdoor adventures then they should know the rules. They probably look at this from a business point of view and are interested in numbers and dollars. Thus the large groups of 50 and must not have any good control over a group that size so the participants do what they want to wherever they feel like it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 9:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Aug. 20 2013, 5:11 pm)
QUOTE

(OverUnder @ Aug. 20 2013, 6:15 pm)
QUOTE
Thanks for the heads up about this issue.  A poster on the 14ers thread claiming to be with the company basically deflected any blame to other campers in the area and the renegade people that may have possibly been with their group.  Read like a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo.

I read that. How pathetic.

Why is it so hard for corporations to admit when they screw up?

This whole deny/deflect strategy is going to blow up in their face. People are pissed about this, for good reason.

What's worse is that he pleaded ignorance about the whole  issue of group size and the need for a concessionaires license to use the NFS properties for his "For Profit" group trips !

20 pages long now.


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 9:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I emailed the thread link to the Rio Grande National Forest office, calling their attention to that poster's comments. Hopefully, at the very least, someone from the USFS will contact the company and educate them on wilderness regulations.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 10:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Willow was where I saw an oversized group last year from Colorado College in Baca.  Most of them were camped in the clearly marked restoration area on the shoreline.  I guess that place can't escape trouble.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 10:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Willow is kindof doomed, I guess--super-scenic lake, close enough to day hike, access to 14ers, close to the only real town for miles.
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 20 2013, 11:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's doublecabin's fault. Always advertising Willow Lake as the best place in CO on a large public forum.

=P


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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 21 2013, 12:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd say a lot of climbers know about this incident.

I wonder if they have vans with the camp name on the side.

I wouldn't advise parking one of those vans near a Colorado trailhead anytime soon...
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PostIcon Posted on: Aug. 21 2013, 12:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(swimswithtrout @ Aug. 20 2013, 1:38 pm)
QUOTE

(Lamebeaver @ Aug. 20 2013, 1:27 pm)
QUOTE
Since 14ers.com doesn't have a search feature on their forums, a link would be helpful...

10 Pages Worth


After 23 pages of comments the admins.  have locked the page for now.

Along the way, the appropriate FS authorities chimed in and said they're conducting an investigation with legal implications.


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