SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 212>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Utah,, A state that doesn't give a< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
wycanislatrans Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2760
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 6:51 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

crap about true conservation.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib....tml.csp

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib....tml.csp

Now, please, someone try to defend the state in their claim that they should be managing the federal lands. What a joke.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7227
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 9:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
To be a "natural condition," the Supreme Court said, something must "have a close tie to land itself" and "persist on the land," and not be transitory or temporary. According to the court, the transient nature of animals, as they move from one place to another, takes wildlife out of the expected, natural condition of public lands.


WTF???


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16707
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 10:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That state has some of the most goofy-in-the-head politicians and judges to be found anywhere.

--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
Echo Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7430
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 06 2013, 11:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are some pretty un-natural animals in that state.

--------------
If Light is in your heart, you will find your way Home. (Rumi)

The miracle is not to fly in the air, or to walk on the water, but to walk on the earth.  Chinese proverb

http://echo-echosvoice.blogspot.com/

http://duffybarkley.blogspot.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11011
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 1:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Sep. 06 2013, 10:50 pm)
QUOTE
That state has some of the most goofy-in-the-head politicians and judges to be found anywhere.

Yep.  Just ask the supporters of Joe Hill.  He'd tell you if the state hadn't murdered him.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
BoomerHiker Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8711
Joined: Jan. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 1:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They always make a case they should get control of the federal lands.

They never make a case that they ought to get control of federal lands.


--------------
Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
1camper Search for posts by this member.
love advocate
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6040
Joined: Dec. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 3:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The cattle grazing is out of control all over Utah as well.  They let cattle graze the Aquarius Plateau, La Sal.. all the high ground.  Polluting some of the best water I've ever tasted..it's criminal.

--------------
"If people think nature is their friend, then they sure don't need an enemy."

Kurt Vonnegut
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
tomas Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3039
Joined: Oct. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 5:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 06 2013, 9:58 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
To be a "natural condition," the Supreme Court said, something must "have a close tie to land itself" and "persist on the land," and not be transitory or temporary. According to the court, the transient nature of animals, as they move from one place to another, takes wildlife out of the expected, natural condition of public lands.


WTF???

I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

--------------
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7227
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 6:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Polluting some of the best water I've ever tasted.


I prefer clean over polluted but hey, each to his own.... :D


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
AegisIII Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 627
Joined: Jan. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 07 2013, 10:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(1camper @ Sep. 07 2013, 3:38 pm)
QUOTE
The cattle grazing is out of control all over Utah as well.  They let cattle graze the Aquarius Plateau, La Sal.. all the high ground.  Polluting some of the best water I've ever tasted..it's criminal.

Well, just like animals, water moves from one place to another, and thus is not a natural condition and needs not be protected in Utah.

--------------
--
EJS
(Ed. S)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
reubenstump Search for posts by this member.
Lago Grey
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sep. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 3:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AegisIII @ Sep. 07 2013, 10:10 pm)
QUOTE

(1camper @ Sep. 07 2013, 3:38 pm)
QUOTE
The cattle grazing is out of control all over Utah as well.  They let cattle graze the Aquarius Plateau, La Sal.. all the high ground.  Polluting some of the best water I've ever tasted..it's criminal.

Well, just like animals, water moves from one place to another, and thus is not a natural condition and needs not be protected in Utah.

Unlike humans, which have migrated across rivers, oceans, and continents, - around the globe, often in the name of some sort of conquest.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11011
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AegisIII @ Sep. 07 2013, 10:10 pm)
QUOTE
Well, just like animals, water moves from one place to another, and thus is not a natural condition and needs not be protected in Utah.

Excellent point.  I suggest you move to Utah and run for the state legislature.  I'd vote for you.  Oh, wait a minute.  That means I'd have to move to Utah too. :p

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16701
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 2:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Almost got in an argument over this at the Silver Dollar yesterday. Utah deosn't seem to value its tourists, kind of reminds me of Wyoming outside of Teton County.

--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
1camper Search for posts by this member.
love advocate
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6040
Joined: Dec. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 4:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AegisIII @ Sep. 07 2013, 10:10 pm)
QUOTE

(1camper @ Sep. 07 2013, 3:38 pm)
QUOTE
The cattle grazing is out of control all over Utah as well.  They let cattle graze the Aquarius Plateau, La Sal.. all the high ground.  Polluting some of the best water I've ever tasted..it's criminal.

Well, just like animals, water moves from one place to another, and thus is not a natural condition and needs not be protected in Utah.

But different from animals, water is still connected to it's source, in Utah.  So they should be responsible for polluting other states as that water goes downhill.
 A ranger told me once that 80% of the water in the western watershed is used to water cattle or to irrigate crops used as cattle feed.  I'm frankly too lazy to try and document that statement but that's how it was told to me.


--------------
"If people think nature is their friend, then they sure don't need an enemy."

Kurt Vonnegut
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2053
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 08 2013, 11:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to defend the occasional right wing wackiness of the Utah legislature, (or the left wing wackiness of California's)  but to their way of looking at it, they want to know why the Feds own and control 66% of Utah lands, while only 1% of Ohio. (and 2% of wide open Texas). So the urge to take some of that land back is at least understandable, whether or not you agree.
Not to say that local control is ALWAYS best, but too often local input is not sought or ignored.
Usually I'm on the side of the feds, but their tactics do have a way of ticking off the local populace, who will still be living there long after the local BLM land manager has transferred three states over.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16707
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Sep. 08 2013, 9:58 pm)
QUOTE
. . . they want to know why the Feds own and control 66% of Utah lands, while only 1% of Ohio. (and 2% of wide open Texas). So the urge to take some of that land back is at least understandable, whether or not you agree. . . .

So it's a misconception on their part. Those lands never in the history of this country belonged to Utah. They never were "Utah lands." There is no "taking back" what never belonged to them.

So the part that is understandable is that those Utah folks who want to "take back" what never belonged to them actually are expecting about the biggest welfare handout in history.

Those lands belong to the people of the United States. Never did they belong solely to the people of Utah. And I personally hope they never do. (By the way, last I read, the proportion of Our Land in Utah is about 57 percent, rather than 66 percent.)


--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 17
big_load Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 24019
Joined: Jun. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe he meant the people who had it before it was called Utah.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
TravisNWood Search for posts by this member.
W Y O M I N G
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16707
Joined: Apr. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Sep. 08 2013, 10:31 pm)
QUOTE
Maybe he meant the people who had it before it was called Utah.

Ah, I see, so maybe it's the Native Americans who need to take back what belongs to them.

--------------
Location — Wyoming
Webpages — Cloud Peak Wilderness MapsRocky Mountain Wildlife
Photos — Bighorn Mountains — Wyoming Steppes
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 19
tRoLLin_mOtOr Search for posts by this member.
Strategery
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 987
Joined: Feb. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Sep. 08 2013, 9:20 pm)
QUOTE

(buzzards @ Sep. 08 2013, 9:58 pm)
QUOTE
. . . they want to know why the Feds own and control 66% of Utah lands, while only 1% of Ohio. (and 2% of wide open Texas). So the urge to take some of that land back is at least understandable, whether or not you agree. . . .

So it's a misconception on their part. Those lands never in the history of this country belonged to Utah. They never were "Utah lands." There is no "taking back" what never belonged to them.

So the part that is understandable is that those Utah folks who want to "take back" what never belonged to them actually are expecting about the biggest welfare handout in history.

Those lands belong to the people of the United States. Never did they belong solely to the people of Utah. And I personally hope they never do. (By the way, last I read, the proportion of Our Land in Utah is about 57 percent, rather than 66 percent.)

Another point is that Ohio was already heavily populated and settled, and to a lesser extent Texas too (or at least carved up into private ownership), by the time that the concept of setting aside public lands entered the national discourse.

Attempting to liken the amount of public land in an eastern state like Ohio and a western state like Utah is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.


--------------
It is better to travel well than to arrive
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
hikerjer Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 11011
Joined: Apr. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tRoLLin_mOtOr @ Sep. 09 2013, 1:29 am)
QUOTE
Another point is that Ohio was already heavily populated and settled, and to a lesser extent Texas too (or at least carved up into private ownership), by the time that the concept of setting aside public lands entered the national discourse.

Makes me real glad I live in the west.

--------------
"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen."  -  Louis L'Amour
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
tRoLLin_mOtOr Search for posts by this member.
Strategery
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 987
Joined: Feb. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hikerjer @ Sep. 08 2013, 10:37 pm)
QUOTE
Makes me real glad I live in the west.

We are definitely very lucky to live someplace where unspoiled places still exist.  

I grew up in Ohio...it certainly has scenic areas, and places where you can go to get some solitude, but the terrain,  or remoteness never kept people out of places there like it did out here.

Personally, I don't believe this debate is about anything other than the dollars they can wring out of the land if they get to control it.


--------------
It is better to travel well than to arrive
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2053
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tRoLLin_mOtOr @ Sep. 08 2013, 11:58 pm)
QUOTE
Personally, I don't believe this debate is about anything other than the dollars they can wring out of the land if they get to control it.

To a certain extent. However, much of the Federal land has minimal economic value. A lot of the reason they locals want it is so they can do as they see fit on it, usually this involves riding their ATV's. (One of the reasons I don't particularly like the bill).
The reps from urban areas are, for the most part, acting out of ideology. Feds=Democrats, thus Feds=Bad. This is the "Sagebrush Rebellion" redux.
As I stated, my experience is that the Federal land managers could calm the natives to a great extent if they would just sit down with them and talk rather than roll out new regulations unilaterally. Clinton's double-cross on Grand Staircase NM still rankles a lot of old-timers in southeast Utah. For those with a short memory, Clinton promised the governor of Utah that nothing was afoot then showed up two days later at the  Grand Canyon (which is not even located in Utah, another source of chapped hides) to unveil the new monument.
But reasonable people can work it out, and it appears as if a grand compromise might still be in the works:
Utah representative seeks land deal with both industry and envriromentalists
We'll see if anything positive comes out of it, but at least they are talking.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
Ecocentric Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5225
Joined: Jun. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Utah was late to statehood because they didn't really want to be a state, they wanted to be their own country. Much like Texas, most of the rest of the country would be happy if they were sovereign so that we wouldn't have to supplement them with our tax dollars that they so resent paying. The people of Utah are as conspicuous in their consumption as anyone. The highest per capita consumption of water in a state that is the third in the least amount of rainfall it gets. They have the biggest man made hole in the world. They are doing everything they can to consume every natural resource found there as quickly as possible.

--------------
"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2053
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 1:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ Sep. 09 2013, 4:16 pm)
QUOTE
Utah was late to statehood because they didn't really want to be a state, they wanted to be their own country. Much like Texas, most of the rest of the country would be happy if they were sovereign so that we wouldn't have to supplement them with our tax dollars that they so resent paying. The people of Utah are as conspicuous in their consumption as anyone. The highest per capita consumption of water in a state that is the third in the least amount of rainfall it gets. They have the biggest man made hole in the world. They are doing everything they can to consume every natural resource found there as quickly as possible.

Eco, just to set the record straight, Utah applied for statehood in 1850. They were a part of Mexico for one year, the "State of Deseret" in 1849/50, and tried to become a state for nearly 50 years after that.
The main reason that Utah gets more federal dollars than they send in is due to a big Air Force base in northern Utah, and to a lesser extent all the money they spend administering all that land the feds own.
In fact, the ads placed by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance to persuade Utah residents to reject the bill emphasized how much money it would cost Utah to pay for what the federales so generously cover now.
As for the big hole-over 100 years old now, if you refer to the Bingham Copper mine, I confess to sentimental attachement and bias. My father was the head geologist of that hole in the ground at one time.  Same dad who taught me to hike and backpack and enjoy nature.
It's not the prettiest hole in the world, but when the world can come up with an alternative to copper wiring and pipes, get back to me.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
tRoLLin_mOtOr Search for posts by this member.
Strategery
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 987
Joined: Feb. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 2:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:12 pm)
QUOTE
To a certain extent. However, much of the Federal land has minimal economic value. A lot of the reason they locals want it is so they can do as they see fit on it, usually this involves riding their ATV's. (One of the reasons I don't particularly like the bill).
The reps from urban areas are, for the most part, acting out of ideology. Feds=Democrats, thus Feds=Bad. This is the "Sagebrush Rebellion" redux.
As I stated, my experience is that the Federal land managers could calm the natives to a great extent if they would just sit down with them and talk rather than roll out new regulations unilaterally. Clinton's double-cross on Grand Staircase NM still rankles a lot of old-timers in southeast Utah. For those with a short memory, Clinton promised the governor of Utah that nothing was afoot then showed up two days later at the  Grand Canyon (which is not even located in Utah, another source of chapped hides) to unveil the new monument.
But reasonable people can work it out, and it appears as if a grand compromise might still be in the works:
Utah representative seeks land deal with both industry and envriromentalists
We'll see if anything positive comes out of it, but at least they are talking.

Thanks for the reply, it adds a more personal dimension to why some people think the way they do, at least as it relates to people feeling as though they aren't being dealt with fairly.

A similar animosity towards the Feds exists in Alaska - and there are all kinds of examples that come to mind where a lot of ill will exists with the locals.  The Yukon-Charley Preserve area is a similar story to the one you mention.  The initial promises made to people in the area have been generally disregarded in favor of a one size fits all policy of management.  A good read on this is "A Land Gone Lonesome".

It's not hard to see how people start to feel disaffected by bad policy.

Some of the other ideological and "I wanna do what I want" type arguments are less compelling.


--------------
It is better to travel well than to arrive
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Sep. 08 2013, 9:20 pm)
QUOTE
Those lands never in the history of this country belonged to Utah. They never were "Utah lands." There is no "taking back" what never belonged to them.

So the part that is understandable is that those Utah folks who want to "take back" what never belonged to them actually are expecting about the biggest welfare handout in history.

+1000
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 11:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Sep. 08 2013, 8:58 pm)
QUOTE
Not to defend the occasional right wing wackiness of the Utah legislature, (or the left wing wackiness of California's)...  

The area of CA that I'm a part-time resident in, Mono County, is roughly 90+% owned by various public agencies - NPS, USFS, BLM, LADWP.  Most of the residents of Mono County, (including myself) appreciate this fact and consider this fact a very positive attribute of the area.  Call that wackiness if you like, I would disagree.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2053
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 3:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Sep. 10 2013, 9:13 am)
QUOTE

(buzzards @ Sep. 08 2013, 8:58 pm)
QUOTE
Not to defend the occasional right wing wackiness of the Utah legislature, (or the left wing wackiness of California's)...  

The area of CA that I'm a part-time resident in, Mono County, is roughly 90+% owned by various public agencies - NPS, USFS, BLM, LADWP.  Most of the residents of Mono County, (including myself) appreciate this fact and consider this fact a very positive attribute of the area.  Call that wackiness if you like, I would disagree.

My characterization of the CA legislature is colored not so much by their land use decisions, but by bills such as the one that put me out of a job along with 200 other people in 2003, and led to my departure. (Passed a bill that said if you gave tax incentives to a business to move within the state, the benefits of those tax incentives went to the old city that the business moved from. So, my employer closed my store, waited a year, then reopened it, qualifying it as a new business instead as a relocation. Cost them a few hundred grand in profits, but they made a few million in tax incentives from the new city, so easy call).
Then let's see, the proposed SUV tax, the soda tax, the Public Employees union's incestuous relationship with CA government at all levels, and now the stripping of tax-free status of entities who do not conform to your political ideology. That's what I call wackiness. You are free to disagree, and to be fair, the Utah legislature passes it's share of eye-rolling bills on the other side of the political spectrum. I suspect you would agree with me on that one.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 4:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm just happy that the prevailing attitude in Mono County CA is not consistent with the attitude expressed by many Utahans in regards to public lands.

But I am sorry to hear that your previous employer couldn't resist the temptation of corporate welfare.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2053
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 10 2013, 6:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

A corporation that walks away from millions of dollars is not upholding it's duty to it's shareholders. I don't blame them for what they did, the company made the deal before the legislature decided there was a problem and they had to fix it. Besides, if you had a store in downtown San Bernardino and had the chance to move into a nice facility in Rancho Cucamonga, what would you do?
Bottom line, if it wasn't for the CA legislature, I might still be cursing SoCal traffic, enjoying the Sierra instead of the Uintas, and paying taxes there instead of here.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
33 replies since Sep. 06 2013, 6:51 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 212>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Utah,
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions