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Topic: We Need More Sex!, to make more babies< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:46 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

US birth rate craters

We talk a lot about economic policy, but one of the most important drivers of long-term economic growth is population growth, and sustaining a young population. Japan, Russia, Italy and other nations face serious threats from long-term population stagnation.

So get out there and reproduce! Hump away!  :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Awful "economic logic" that is crushing this planet under the weight of too many damned babies.

"Growth for growth's sake is the philosophy of a cancer cell."

-Ed Abbey


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 11:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Perpetual exponential growth in a finite environment is purely unsustainable, by its very nature.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm thinking more motivated creative people would be a more effective economic growth strategy vs. more ineffective people waiting for jobs to be provided for them while living on our tax dollars.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More people is one thing this world can do without.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm thinking we need a culling plague.*

We don't value each other any more.  We are hateful and lacking respect for our own species.  We're toxic to the environment we subsist on and and are raising our young to be un-self-sufficient parasites.

We've sown the seeds of our own extinction.  

This thought brings me a comfortable, dark peace.



*(disclaimer: I work in retail)
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:46 am)
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Truly an article renowned for its ignorance and pathetically poor reasoning.

It begins with the unfounded assumption that lack of high birth-rate equals lack of romance. It does not. The article then proposes that the future economy will be founded only on birthrate. Thus immigration from countries with high birthrate is ignored as a factor of population growth. And overall, the article supposes that short-term spurts in economy outweigh the disasterous risk of overpopulation to that same economy in the long run.

It's a disgrace to our intelligence to suppose that article is anything but outright foolishness.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The other option is more immigration, which I fully support.

GASP!

Having young people come to America for economic freedom and opportunity is like stealing from other countries.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We need more babies.

Who knows when the next birth will produce another Einstein, another Shakespeare, another Hawking?  We need more minds working on the problem of how to make the human race survive.

We need more Armstrongs, and Yaegers.  More people to take the fearless steps.

We need more heroes and we need more grunts.  Someone has to fly the spaceship and someone has to drive the fuel truck.

Our only chance of long term, and I mean LONG term, survival is more people.

At any given moment, the next child born could take us into the next stage of human development.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nobody's proposing that humans stop having babies altogether, TDale, and that we extinct ourselves in just a couple generations.  Don't worry, babies will still be born.  There will still be future geniuses.

You seem to ignore all the problems that overpopulation causes.  Which seems a bit short-sighted.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I like to keep in practice, just in case Spindle's "culling plague" becomes a reality.

I have a book idea where some virus kills everyone on the planet that doesn't have B- blood type, and those remaining need to reorganize our civilization on a planet that just lost 98% of its population.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 12:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The plague book hasn't been done before.

TDale, how about focusing on educating the people we already have? There could be a latent Einstein in any number of endless slums and ghettos, who was never given the right opportunities in life.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:46 am)
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... Japan, Russia, Italy and other nations face serious threats from long-term population stagnation..

To be fair, Mexico has stabilized at the replacement rate and China will stabilize by 2050.  I'd say the developing world needs less babies, while the developed world could use more.

Of course kids are expensive and real median US wages (for most) have stagnated for decades.  Real raises would help as more potential parents (even well-heeled ones I know) regard kids as a financial burden.  I think having kids is the default but most in the US do not want to raise them in a van under the overpass or in poverty.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More guns and more people, that will fix everything. Hell more of everything, that's what we need. With all of the good aspects, Capitalism fails because of it most basic need for success; MORE. We are addicted to technology that doesn't yet exist, because of greed, our economy and our population, grow with the belief that we will always be able to provide.

The very same people that insist that the government should reduce taxes, reduce spending and reduce regulation, think that people should be free to harvest more resources faster, consume what you can afford, and produce more children, because... maybe we want to prove Malthus right or wrong as soon as possible.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 1:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More sex, more comforting
Foreplay and afterglow, let my people know
Peace on the earth, children sheltering
Every man, every woman
We're gonna take control of our own bodies


http://www.songlyrics.com/todd-rundgren/no-world-order-lyrics/


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TDale @ Sep. 09 2013, 12:17 pm)
QUOTE
We need more babies.

Who knows when the next birth will produce another Einstein, another Shakespeare, another Hawking?  We need more minds working on the problem of how to make the human race survive.

We need more Armstrongs, and Yaegers.  More people to take the fearless steps.

We need more heroes and we need more grunts.  Someone has to fly the spaceship and someone has to drive the fuel truck.

Our only chance of long term, and I mean LONG term, survival is more people.

At any given moment, the next child born could take us into the next stage of human development.

We need no more babies. Too many babies is the problem you want the next Hawking or Einstein to fix.

I've got no problem with more sex, though.

How many starving babies have to be born until we find the next Einstein? Actually, look to Norman Borlaug. He basically cured starvation in India by creating Dwarf Wheat, which was better able to survive India's harsh climate. All Einstein did was open the most dangerous of Pandora's Boxes: The secret to end the human race.

Besides, there'll be more like Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler in that mix, too.

Funny thing, though, is that it's the smart ones that aren't having babies.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 2:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Too damn expensive to raise babies these days. Can we just stick to sex?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There are some serious misanthropes and doomsayers on these forums...

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Has not technology reduced the need for human productivity? WTF is going on?

I understand the short, not long term premise TDale.

Wealth needs growth. Community will unequivocally ultimately require restraint.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(spindle @ Sep. 09 2013, 9:08 am)
QUOTE
I'm thinking we need a culling plague.*

We don't value each other any more.  We are hateful and lacking respect for our own species.  We're toxic to the environment we subsist on and and are raising our young to be un-self-sufficient parasites.

We've sown the seeds of our own extinction.  

This thought brings me a comfortable, dark peace.



*(disclaimer: I work in retail)

:laugh:

"Goddammit do I respect you"

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I love that this thread appears on the very same day I'm going in for my vasectomy consultation...    :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 3:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(orygawn @ Sep. 09 2013, 3:51 pm)
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:laugh:


"Goddammit do I respect you"



It's a useful couple of lines.  Keeps the flaming nut-bags confused and at a disadvantage.


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(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 3:20 pm)
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There are some serious misanthropes and doomsayers on these forums...

Oh yes.

And we await the apocalypse with whole-hearted glee.

Bring on the contagion event!
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 4:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You don't have to be a misanthrope to think there are too many people.  There are many things I love dearly, but wouldn't enjoy (or even survive) beyond some threshold.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 4:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 1:20 pm)
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There are some serious misanthropes and doomsayers on these forums...

Less about that nowadays IMO.  Being an undergraduate when the Berlin Wall came down in '89, I remember reading about Baby Boomer couples saying they could finally have kids as the nuclear war threat dissipated.  Now that was some Doom being lifted and the Scorpions "Winds of Change" played on the deng radio every 30 minutes for a couple years afterwards. Think there was a baby boomlet for awhile..

Think now it's more about greed and possessions (ergo,  foregoing kids means couples can afford more of the latest electronics and eating out every night).


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 4:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SW Mtn backpacker @ Sep. 09 2013, 4:29 pm)
QUOTE

(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 1:20 pm)
QUOTE
There are some serious misanthropes and doomsayers on these forums...

Less about that nowadays IMO.  Being an undergraduate when the Berlin Wall came down in '89, I remember reading about Baby Boomer couples saying they could finally have kids as the nuclear war threat dissipated.  Now that was some Doom being lifted and the Scorpions "Winds of Change" played on the deng radio every 30 minutes for a couple years afterwards. Think there was a baby boomlet for awhile..

Think now it's more about greed and possessions (ergo,  foregoing kids means couples can afford more of the latest electronics and eating out every night).

I remember living in Budapest, making a weekend trip to Prague, and being stuck behind some college girls who would not stop whistling that gd Scorpions riff while walking across the Charles Bridge.

But I disagree with your dim view of those who choose not to have kids due to materialistic reasons. With more women pursuing careers (often out of necessity), raising a family suddenly takes on a whole new dimension. And yes, the opportunity cost is higher (interrupted careers), not to mention the stress of trying to be an involved parent while work demands long days, travel, etc. It is not easy to have a promising career and a nuclear family, as Mrs. Jack has found out. And she probably has it easier than most in terms of work hours and travel. Most of the new mothers on our block work full-time. Some own businesses. Others travel. They all talk about the stress of juggling career and family.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 4:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SW Mtn backpacker @ Sep. 09 2013, 2:29 pm)
QUOTE

(Hungry Jack @ Sep. 09 2013, 1:20 pm)
QUOTE
There are some serious misanthropes and doomsayers on these forums...

. . . Think now it's more about greed and possessions (ergo,  foregoing kids means couples can afford more of the latest electronics and eating out every night).

More babies is about more pollution, more sewage, more energy consumption, more consumption of resources, more global warming, more drilling on public land, more open-pit coal mines, less room for wildlife, less room for wilderness, less room for wildlife sanctuaries, greater impact to the backcountry, more reservations to backpack, less clean water in the arid west, more rivers diverted to Los Angeles, more dried up lakes, more energy pipelands, more oil spills from tankers and deep-water wells, more poverty, more slums, more starving children, and on and on. Those are the results of population growth.

Men are born with brains and gonads. Unfortunately too many of us forget which is which.


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Wild habitat takes priority over economic growth for me. No exceptions.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 09 2013, 5:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

According to most measures, a birth rate of 2.1 births per woman is necessary to sustain population levels (not grow them). We are below that rate of reproductive capacity. In 2009, the total fertility rate for the United States was just below replacement value at 2.09 and the total fertility rate for the world is 2.59, down from 2.8 in 2002 and 5.0 in 1965. China's one-child policy definitely shows in the country's total low fertility rate of 1.75.

If trends of the last decade continue, the world will be at a stable population birth rate in about 20 years. I just don't buy all the Malthusian arguments being vetted here.

But whatever. Go and shoot some people if you are that worried about it.


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I agree with the idea we should invest in the living long before the unborn.

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