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Topic: How would a govt shutdown effect National Parks?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 10:52 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I hope this doesn't get political - but just to let folks know that a shutdown would have recreation implications.

It would be a similar story for National Forests and other federal public lands...

http://www.parkadvocate.org/how-wou....l-parks


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 10:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Haven't we been here before?

Might be a 1 - 2 week closure, just for dramatic effect before kicking the can down the road one more time....
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, many times in the past few years

But this is the first time I've seen this information laid out so nicely for visitors/nearby communities about how it would effect them


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 11:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All the animals in the park would starve to death and the souvenir shops would file for bankruptcy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And by "close" they mean lock the gates, put up roadblocks where gates do not exist and give current visitors 48 hours to get out. Were they to go by the 2011 FAQ Interior put out then.

The exceptions would be some travel corridors such as through GSMNP and I expect the northern Yellowstone route.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 25 2013, 9:26 am)
QUOTE
And by "close" they mean lock the gates, put up roadblocks where gates do not exist and give current visitors 48 hours to get out. Were they to go by the 2011 FAQ Interior put out then.

The exceptions would be some travel corridors such as through GSMNP and I expect the northern Yellowstone route.

I was in Yosemite during the 1991 shutdown, and that time it wasn't like that at all. They closed the campgrounds, hotels (I think), visitor center, shuttle service, and any other facilities run by the NPS, but they didn't kick everyone out of the park.  

There was a lot of confusion about what it all meant. I overheard one couple talking about it...the guy said the ranger had told him the day use areas were open, so maybe they should go check out this "day use area".  :;):

Could be completely different now. That said, in a park like Yosemite it would be a pretty involved undertaking to kick everyone out, so my money is on something a little less draconian.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 2:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For whatever reason that's what was planned for 2011. In part as I recall* from reading it recently as the emergency response people would have been severely understaffed so public safety was judged compromised.

Now by "everyone out" I would not take that to mean they'd sweep the backcountry in some human dragline. Just rely on the one way filtering of letting people exit from the wilderness while not letting anyone else in... so over a rather short timeframe the backcountry would empty of it's own accord. Especially in a shoulder season such as October.

http://www.rei.com/share/rei-blog/2011/04/national_parks_anda.html

The 2011 Department of Interior Fact Sheet for the closure:
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv....eet.pdf
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 3:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My first thought about the probability of me being forced not to work due to the children in Congress was "sweet, I can go to Isle Royale".  Then I remembered one crucial detail about the place...

In that case I'll be doing some touring of other places that are more accessible.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2013, 3:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Fee-free camping in the BC? :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 8:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Of course it's going to get political but that does sound funny... "The wilderness has now closed".

Sorry but there is so much open wilderness that doesn't require rangers or admission fees that it will only affect the tourists and the vultures who feed on them. Parks aren't supposed to be about supporting local industries. They're supposed to be about preserving wilderness and one way would be to close those areas down.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 8:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Will the hikers on the AT have to go home?    ???

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 1:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How do you get the rafter out of GC?

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bill g @ Sep. 26 2013, 10:12 am)
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How do you get the rafter out of GC?

Let 'em get flushed out by the river, same as letting the backcountry users leave but discourage new entry's. The predominate visitors they'll be dealing with are frontcountry that can be easily directly managed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 2:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More like, how would this effect the flood recovery in CO?  They've already told the National Guard in UT to stand down because of the shutdown.

http://www.denverpost.com/news....ecovery
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 8:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 8:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HikeClimbBike @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:36 pm)
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The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?

Maybe you did. It's actually a valid use.
QUOTE
1. If you are talking about a result, then use the word "effect."

   Example: What effect did the loss have on the team?

2. It is appropriate to use the word "effect" if one of these words is used immediately before the word: into, on, take, the, any, an, or and.

   Example: The prescribed medication had an effect on the patient's symptoms.
   Example: In analyzing a situation, it is important to take the concepts of cause and effect into consideration.

3. If you want to describe something that was caused or brought about, the right word to use is effect.

   Example: The new manager effected some positive changes in the office. (This means that the new manager caused some positive changes to take place in the office.)


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 8:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:28 am)
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Of course it's going to get political but that does sound funny... "The wilderness has now closed".

Sorry but there is so much open wilderness that doesn't require rangers or admission fees that it will only affect the tourists and the vultures who feed on them. Parks aren't supposed to be about supporting local industries. They're supposed to be about preserving wilderness and one way would be to close those areas down.

I both agree and disagree with you. If the tourist industry closes down watch support for wild areas go down shortly behind it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 9:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 26 2013, 8:39 pm)
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(HikeClimbBike @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:36 pm)
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The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?

Maybe you did. It's actually a valid use.

No, you clearly misunderstood what you read and quoted.  HCB is right.

The flood recovery would be affected by the shut down, which would have a negative effect on the local residents.

Regardless, it sucks that parks would shut down.  Maybe they should shut down the prisons and release all the inmates into the custody/homes of politicians.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 9:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(no_granola @ Sep. 26 2013, 7:00 pm)
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HCB is right.

Not entirely.

(HikeClimbBike @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:36 pm)
QUOTE
The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?

When I was in sixth grade, compound adjectives, such as in your phrase "sixth grade English," were to be hyphenated as in "sixth-grade English." That was especially true when the compound adjective involved a number, such as "sixth."


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 9:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HikeClimbBike @ Sep. 26 2013, 8:36 pm)
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The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?

Oh, you are one of those.....................scheesh!

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2013, 10:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
The flood recovery would be affected by the shut down, which would have a negative effect on the local residents.

The flood would affect recovery but a gov't shutdown would do nothing to effect recovery.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 10:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

During the last government shutdown that I recall (Nov. 14 to 19, 1995 and Dec. 16, 1995 to Jan. 6, 1996), I made at least three short backpacking trips into Black Elk Wilderness. Each time I parked at a National Forest trailhead.

At no time during those three trips did I encounter any difficulties at all — if one excludes the more than a foot of snow above about 6,000 feet. But I would not credit a few congressional nitwits for the foot of snow. That's far more credit than those particular congressmen deserve.


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(wycanislatrans @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:56 pm)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:28 am)
QUOTE
Of course it's going to get political but that does sound funny... "The wilderness has now closed".

Sorry but there is so much open wilderness that doesn't require rangers or admission fees that it will only affect the tourists and the vultures who feed on them. Parks aren't supposed to be about supporting local industries. They're supposed to be about preserving wilderness and one way would be to close those areas down.

I both agree and disagree with you. If the tourist industry closes down watch support for wild areas go down shortly behind it.

I think a very significant part of the population would support no-access wilderness over development. And considering how many millions of years wilderness managed just fine without humans, closing it off to those same humans isn't going to hurt.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2013, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 27 2013, 8:31 am)
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(wycanislatrans @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:56 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:28 am)
QUOTE
Of course it's going to get political but that does sound funny... "The wilderness has now closed".

Sorry but there is so much open wilderness that doesn't require rangers or admission fees that it will only affect the tourists and the vultures who feed on them. Parks aren't supposed to be about supporting local industries. They're supposed to be about preserving wilderness and one way would be to close those areas down.

I both agree and disagree with you. If the tourist industry closes down watch support for wild areas go down shortly behind it.

I think a very significant part of the population would support no-access wilderness over development. And considering how many millions of years wilderness managed just fine without humans, closing it off to those same humans isn't going to hurt.

Only were the case convincingly made that they would benefit I expect: that's the argument that helped establish the "blue line" restrictions on the Adirondaks: protecting a vital water supply.

On a purely "wilderness is wonderful" sort of emotional appeal, not enough to halt exploitation.
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(HikeClimbBike @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:36 pm)
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The misuse of "effect" instead of "affect" in this thread is making me nuts.   Did everyone here fail sixth grade English?

Yes. I misused it. For F sake. I was typing quickly and wasn't thinking about if I should use an "a" or an "e".

Pardon the mistake Mr. English Teacher.

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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 5:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sorry, I noticed it immediately, but unfortunately one cannot edit post titles

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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 27 2013, 11:53 am)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 27 2013, 8:31 am)
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(wycanislatrans @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:56 pm)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Sep. 26 2013, 6:28 am)
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Of course it's going to get political but that does sound funny... "The wilderness has now closed".

Sorry but there is so much open wilderness that doesn't require rangers or admission fees that it will only affect the tourists and the vultures who feed on them. Parks aren't supposed to be about supporting local industries. They're supposed to be about preserving wilderness and one way would be to close those areas down.

I both agree and disagree with you. If the tourist industry closes down watch support for wild areas go down shortly behind it.

I think a very significant part of the population would support no-access wilderness over development. And considering how many millions of years wilderness managed just fine without humans, closing it off to those same humans isn't going to hurt.

Only were the case convincingly made that they would benefit I expect: that's the argument that helped establish the "blue line" restrictions on the Adirondaks: protecting a vital water supply.

On a purely "wilderness is wonderful" sort of emotional appeal, not enough to halt exploitation.

What he said

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(TravisNWood @ Sep. 27 2013, 10:52 am)
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During the last government shutdown that I recall (Nov. 14 to 19, 1995 and Dec. 16, 1995 to Jan. 6, 1996), I made at least three short backpacking trips into Black Elk Wilderness. Each time I parked at a National Forest trailhead.

At no time during those three trips did I encounter any difficulties at all — if one excludes the more than a foot of snow above about 6,000 feet. But I would not credit a few congressional nitwits for the foot of snow. That's far more credit than those particular congressmen deserve.

If the trailhead wasn't gated, I don't doubt that.  Roads and facilities that have gates will obviously be closed.  Others that aren't across our vast federal public lands will obviously be harder to enforce a closure at.  And since the only employees that will be working during a shutdown will be LEO's and Firefighters, and I doubt that there were very many of them around the Black Elk Wilderness during the winter of 95/96, well, there's your answer...  Go to some remote un-gated place that doesn't require any sort of pass or permit and you may get away with doing your hiking trip.

Me?  If I get furloughed I'm going to go hang out in Anza-Borrego until the fed govt is funded once again, or until there is a fire and they need me to do PIO work. The latter is a real possibility due to it being Santa Ana season.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder what affect a government shutdown would have on SAR responses on federal lands for people that either entered the federal land before the shutdown or entered unimpeded during the shutdown. I suppose it may depend on the jurisdiction, for instance (I am just guessing here because I don't really know) National Forest SAR operations might originate from local law enforcement (ie county sheriff, etc) whereas National Park might originate from the Park (ie  Grand Canyon NP if I am not mistaken has their own helicopter.)
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2013, 6:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm guessing that the search and rescue would still happen, but may be delayed, may not have as many searchers or resources, and the person may be cited afterwards.

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