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Topic: the ocean is broken, this is just sickening< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 5:53 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just awful: http://news.yahoo.com/the-ocean-is-broken-133327474.html

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 8:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sad, reading the comments is almost as disheartening. How do we create a sustainable international fishery?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 8:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

EVERYONE should READ the ARTICLE.

I read that earlier. Terrible. One of the most depressing things I have ever read.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe GreenPeace needs to get one of these...

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 10:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why is this is a surprise?

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 10:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(leafwalker @ Oct. 22 2013, 8:56 pm)
QUOTE
EVERYONE should READ the ARTICLE.

I read that earlier. Terrible. One of the most depressing things I have ever read.

Try "Sea of Slaughter", by Farley Mowat, for a more comprehensive and depressing history of the depletion of ocean life.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 11:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seriously, this crap, in one form or another, has been going on for centuries. It is depressing but not shocking.

Stupid humans.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 22 2013, 11:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TravisNWood @ Oct. 22 2013, 11:14 pm)
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Seriously, this crap, in one form or another, has been going on for centuries. It is depressing but not shocking.

Stupid humans.

It is now becoming more commonly accepted that Basque whalers operated in North America (with on-shore fat rendering camps) before Columbus.  They kept their discovery as a trade secret, since the species they were hunting were long since extinct in European waters.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 12:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Oct. 22 2013, 9:29 pm)
QUOTE

(TravisNWood @ Oct. 22 2013, 11:14 pm)
QUOTE
Seriously, this crap, in one form or another, has been going on for centuries. It is depressing but not shocking.

Stupid humans.

It is now becoming more commonly accepted that Basque whalers operated in North America (with on-shore fat rendering camps) before Columbus.  They kept their discovery as a trade secret, since the species they were hunting were long since extinct in European waters.

I hadn't heard that. It is interesting. But it's not surprising that European whalers were depleting their own resource.

As a landlubber, I am reminded of how the beaver trade decimated that critter in the early 1800s, for beaver hats, evidently. And then there were the bison for other reasons.

And when feathered hats were fashionable for stylish women, our predecessors wiped out bird populations. What happened on land in the American West is easier to see. It only makes sense that humans have decimated the seas also.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 2:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

No one can really criticize unless they do not support the meat industry. I too am guilty -sometimes.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 2:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As Travis related this is nothing new in human history.  If a buck is to be made unless there are those preventing such, resources will be exhausted till the last living thing is gone.  Exploiters have no remorse, only interested in their short term gains.  Little consideration for effects into the future.  

During Reagan's presidency he put James Watt in as Secretary of the Interior.   An exploiter that did not care about the future because according to his religious views we were at the end of times anyway.  

A century ago almost every conifer in the enormous Lake Tahoe basin was felled to provide lumber for the nearby Nevada silver mines.  Even though it is arguably one of the most beautiful mountain lakes in the world.  Years later men caught the huge strain of cutthroat trout (up to 40 pounds) running between large Pyramid Lake in Nevada up the Truckee River to Lake Tahoe.  They caught virtually all the fish by letting the fish go up the many tributary streams of the lake to spawn, and then blocking their return with nets across the streams, catching every last fish till they were all gone.   All for the sake of nearsighted money in their pocket selling the fish cheaply to silver miners.  Many later could of course be found squandering profits from those special fish, stumbling about drunk visiting Virginia City whorehouses.

Russian fur traders nearly wiped out every last sea otter from Japan to Alaska to Canada to California.  The fact a small population survived near Big Sur is a miracle.  Where there is a buck to be made some men have wisdom no better than the monkeys they evolved from.   In my opinion the planet is well on the path to destruction as long as human population and development growth remains unchecked.  Not that there aren't many good minds among us that could co-exist with other lifeforms here responsibly.  We simply do not have the power of the vast greedy juggernaut that does.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 9:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I know here, there are stringent rules and fines about when my sons boat can operate, 1 minute after midnight on a December day starts crabbing season, Salmon and tuna are regulated etc, but as soon as the boats get out into international waters they encounter unbelievably huge, canning the meat as the fish, factory ships with no limits.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 10:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I know that humanity has been doing this for centuries, even millennia. What struck me as different about this story is that it seems we've finally finished the job.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 23 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What is different now from decades or centuries before is we now have the ability to produce lot more stuff, take more fish with the factory ships, and we have put the economy ($$$$$$$) over environmental protection over and over again.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 1:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This might be a step in the right direction
19-year-old-student-develops-ocean-cleanup-array-that-could-remove-7250000-tons-of-plastic
-from-the-worlds-oceans.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 1:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We love and worship the good in capitalism, but try our very best to ignore the bad.

Without big government to control big corporate greed there will be nothing left.  

Hard to believe that we evolved the big brain, only to use it to wipe ourselves out.

Good the hear that some people are working on tech solutions, I just hope that it is not too late.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Read the article.

For a number of reasons, I am a vegetarian.  Have been for over 40 years.

Just a small contribution on my part to the problem.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 1:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 29 2013, 1:15 pm)
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We love and worship the good in capitalism, but try our very best to ignore the bad.

Without big government to control big corporate greed there will be nothing left.  

Hard to believe that we evolved the big brain, only to use it to wipe ourselves out.

Good the hear that some people are working on tech solutions, I just hope that it is not too late.

Needs to be noted that governments do their share in stripping the earth, too.

Big Government is not the answer.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 1:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If Big Government, doing the will of the people, is not the answer, then there is no answer.

The whole meaning and ethic of big corporations is to maximize profits, in the short run, without regard for the long run.

Only competent, effective government controls, enacted by the people, can offset that rapacious ethic.

Government has plenty of problems, is often incompetent, and is sometimes controlled by the very forces that need to be reined in, but historically it has been the only thing that saved us.

Have you read the history of the dire battles to save our National Parks and Wilderness areas??  John Muir fought so hard to save Hetch Hetchy that it killed him when he lost.  

But it made the Sierra Club a much more powerful, and effective political force to influence the government in saving other important areas.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 29 2013, 1:35 pm)
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then there is no answer.

I tend to lean towards that answer. As we have 'advanced' we have made it too easy to destroy the earth on a large scale, quickly and inexpensively, all while increasing our population more and more, and increasing the life span. Not only is there just so many more people than what is sustainable, people are living more unsustainable then ever, with more and more 'things' using more and more resources.

I fear we cannot live sustainably. We could make improvements and change ways, but I dont think we can ever truly reverse things to a sustainable level again. I think it would take some kind of plague or ice age, something to knock out the population back to the size and technology of the stone age.

While I rely on the food industry no and then, I try to live sustainably off the land as much as I can, be it growing my own vegetables and fruits or hunting my own meat (from whats local and in surplus). I like to be able to be self sufficient, but even if everyone adopted this there would still not be enough of nature to go around I don't think, since todays population is just so much more than it was when we primitive and lived this way, in harmony with nature.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2013, 11:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 29 2013, 1:35 pm)
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If Big Government, doing the will of the people, is not the answer, then there is no answer.

The whole meaning and ethic of big corporations is to maximize profits, in the short run, without regard for the long run.

Only competent, effective government controls, enacted by the people, can offset that rapacious ethic.

Government has plenty of problems, is often incompetent, and is sometimes controlled by the very forces that need to be reined in, but historically it has been the only thing that saved us.

Have you read the history of the dire battles to save our National Parks and Wilderness areas??  John Muir fought so hard to save Hetch Hetchy that it killed him when he lost.  

But it made the Sierra Club a much more powerful, and effective political force to influence the government in saving other important areas.

When government gets too big it begins to strip and rape its human resources.  I would be very careful about leaning towards bigger government.  Individual rights and religious freedoms are far more important than any other resource.

More government and regulations are not the answer to anything.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 3:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

An example of Big Government gone bad is this:

http://www.foxnews.com/politic....ks-fall

Just a tip of the ice burg of greed and extravagance over the last 4- 5 years.  Big government, out of control spending:  terrible impact on some of the things dearest to us.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 8:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
If Big Government, doing the will of the people, is not the answer, then there is no answer.


The "Big Government" of US expansion in the latter 1880s was doing the "will of the people" when it slaughtered the natives and stripped the land. You're delusional if you think it's doing much better now.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 8:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Capitalism is a heartless monster unto itself, unaccountable to anyone or anything. Its singular function is to consume, with extreme prejudice, at will. We're simply the means by which it's done. We're its voracious mouth, crushing hands, stomping feet. It strips us of compassion, common sense, foresight. It's taught us to be traitors to our own kind, to use our very humanness against us.

I believe that there's nothing to do but wait for the only thing that will work -- a global extinction event.

Tea, anyone?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 11:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bigsilk @ Oct. 30 2013, 8:21 am)
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.....

Tea, anyone?

I love tea.

Yes, more please.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 12:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Individual rights and religious freedoms are far more important than any other resource.



Really?

Check with us when you no longer have any clean water to drink, or clean air to breathe.

You'll be getting to check out the taste that pie in the sky sooner rather than later.

If we cannot use the big brains to preserve a healthy, livable environment, then there will indeed be a major extinction event, sooner rather than later.

What a species!


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 30 2013, 7:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 30 2013, 12:43 pm)
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Individual rights and religious freedoms are far more important than any other resource.



Really?

Check with us when you no longer have any clean water to drink, or clean air to breathe.

You'll be getting to check out the taste that pie in the sky sooner rather than later.

If we cannot use the big brains to preserve a healthy, livable environment, then there will indeed be a major extinction event, sooner rather than later.

What a species!

Yes, really.  More people have been destroyed  by big government than capitalism.  That is how I see the history of the world from the the day of Genghis Khan... Romans... Muslum hordes.... Stalin... Communism... Nazi Germany.... China... Cuba...

Capitalism and limited government = more personal freedoms.  

Those freedoms to me are more important than food, air or water, but I see Big Government more of a threat to these 3 things than capitalism.  

That is how I see life.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 31 2013, 8:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Oct. 30 2013, 10:43 am)
QUOTE
Individual rights and religious freedoms are far more important than any other resource.



Really?

Check with us when you no longer have any clean water to drink, or clean air to breathe.

You'll be getting to check out the taste that pie in the sky sooner rather than later.

If we cannot use the big brains to preserve a healthy, livable environment, then there will indeed be a major extinction event, sooner rather than later.

What a species!

While some government is needed to help keep things in check, Big Government has done more to harm populations and the environment than anything else except large natural events. Even that last can be questionable.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 31 2013, 9:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Pretty dramatic description of a sea being "fished out" by large industrial trawlers.  Here in the US we have had it relatively good since the rise of conservation with leaders such as Teddy Roosevelt and John Muir, but it was not always that way with the near extinction of the buffalo, the formation of the Dust Bowl etc…  Travel in some parts of the world and you will see unrestricted grazing of mountainsides, … then only hear on cable news when hundreds die in the resulting floods downhill or downstream.  

It's all about the tragedy of the commons (in the OP's case, applied to fish) and it pays for the big resource-extraction companies (private or state-sponsored) to harvest as much as possible.  Doesn't matter to them if a degraded system is left for the public …. or even later shareholders when you think about it.  Make your loot, then buy your way into someplace civilized like Norway or Switzerland.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 31 2013, 10:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just curious but how has big government done more to harm the environment?
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