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Topic: Cheating< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:20 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Topic came up in conversation last night, so I am asking you fine folks.

Do you know anyone who has cheated on their partner while in a monogamous relationship?  Open relationships do not count.  My question is more of the "Do you know the person directly?" type more than "Did you hear about it on the news" type.

Supposedly, according to all the magazine articles on it, a large majority of men have cheated, and something like 40% of women.  Now, I am not looking for a list of prospective dates, just curious if this tiny community is within the bounds of "normal".

As for my own answer: yes, I am aware of more than a few people who have cheated on a partner.  I do not know if 50% of the men and 40% of the women I know have done so, but the fact that I am aware of at least some tells me there are others who are more discreet.  

ETA:  In an hour or so, I am leaving town for a few days, so it might be Monday before I read this again.  Do not take my lack of participation as a lack of interest in your thoughts.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes multiple instances. Some were married. Men and women.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, I know several who have cheated on their partners.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I actually don't think I have direct knowledge of anyone cheating.

This is probably mostly a reflection of a few things:

1. I'm quite a boyscout myself about this and most other issues of personal ethics. So, birds of a feather flock together. Also, if any of my friends were cheating, they probably would hide that from me, since they know that I would not approve.

2. I'm not into the club/bar/party scene at all, and that's probably the context from which most one night stands are launched.

3. I suspect that most married people who sleep around are pretty discreet about it, just as a general policy.

4. I have very few friendships that are at the level of intimacy where that person might confide in me about their marital issues, generally. I can count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of friends who have ever confided anything significant to me about their marital sex life, for example.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Deborah @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:32 am)
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Yes, I know several who have cheated on their partners.

I'm curious, Deborah--how do you know this?

Because the cheater told you?

Because the partner who was cheated on told you?

I wonder if women are more likely to know about these things because they are more likely to confide such things to their friends? (As I mentioned above, very very rarely have any of my friends confided anything about their marital/sexual relationships to me.)

(None of this is meant in a challenging way--I'm just curious about these questions.)
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm not much for cheatin'
but it does make for some good country songs though.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 11:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, I know people that have cheated on their spouse/ long term partner.

-An unmarried female co-worker of mine was dating another co-worker.  She knew that he had a live in girlfriend that was dying of cancer at the time.  After the death of his girlfriend, my two co-workers eventually married and now have two children.

-My wife's cousin was cheating on his first wife from before the time he married her and straight through their very short marriage.  He too went on to marry the woman he was cheating with.

-My paternal grandfather left his wife and conducted an open relationship with another woman.  He never divorced my grandmother.  Upon my grandmother's death, he married the other woman.

-My ex-wife made several attempts to find someone to cheat with during the last 3 months that we were together.  The way I found out that she was unhappy in our marriage was when my bank called me to tell me that someone had used our debit card to open multiple dating website profiles in the last ten minutes.

I have never cheated on someone and would not.  When I was single I maintained a very strict policy to never date women that had cheated on partners in the past as I considered them inherently untrustworthy.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Oct. 25 2013, 11:20 am)
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...  

ETA:  In an hour or so, I am leaving town for a few days, so it might be Monday before I read this again.  Do not take my lack of participation as a lack of interest in your thoughts.

Will your wife be home?  

:)

Seriously, I know many people who have cheated on their spouse.  (I don't really consider it cheating if you're not married.)   I think the statistics are probably low, due to incomplete "self-reporting" in whatever surveys they take.  I also suspect there is a lot of variation based on both geographic and demographic factors.  In small towns, it is more difficult to cheat, not only because "word gets around" ("I saw Jim's car outside the Smith house the other day"), but also because there are fewer potential candidates.  And in some parts of the country, I think there is a greater "moral" or ethical component in life generally (I should rephrase that, I think the moral standards are different).  

I have lived in and just outside of NYC for more than 20 years.  I would say probably half the people I know have cheated, whether I know it specifically (which I do in many cases), or I just suspect it.  

FWIW, I have never cheated on my wife.

Mark
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jmarklane @ Oct. 25 2013, 12:06 pm)
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 In small towns, it is more difficult to cheat, not only because "word gets around" ( "I saw Jim's car outside the Smith house the other day" ), but also because there are fewer potential candidates.  

I have no knowledge of the alleged "Smith House".

I have never been to the "Smith House".

I saw YOUR car leaving the Jones' residence the other morning as I was on my way to Church to feed widows, orphans and puppies!


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Oct. 25 2013, 9:41 am)
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(Deborah @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:32 am)
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Yes, I know several who have cheated on their partners.

I'm curious, Deborah--how do you know this?

Because the cheater told you?

Because the partner who was cheated on told you?

A bit of both.  Plus it often comes out when the divorce happens.  But, sometimes I can simply see it.  

I have observed people at work who were clearly involved, yet knew that they were married to others.  Did they fess up? No.  Did they think they were discreet?  Yes.  

This is a bit off topic, but today I learned (I'm taking a vacation day) that a young man at work was dismissed.  When the co-worker told me, I commented that it did not surprise me, while he was shocked.  Maybe I am just more observant than some.


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cweston Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Deborah @ Oct. 25 2013, 11:22 am)
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Maybe I am just more observant than some.

I'm sure that is part of it. I'm a little deliberately naive about office politics and the like. In fact, it's gotten me into trouble before (when I didn't know things about the politics of the workplace that I should have been aware of.)

I have a colleague who always knows what students are "with" what students in our department. (We are college professors.) Not only do I wonder how she knows this, I guess I also wonder why she would want to know this. I prefer to remain blissfully ignorant.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Oct. 25 2013, 10:27 am)
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Not only do I wonder how she knows this, I guess I also wonder why she would want to know this. I prefer to remain blissfully ignorant.

It's not that I want to know it.   It just shows up right in front of me.    :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Oct. 25 2013, 12:15 pm)
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(jmarklane @ Oct. 25 2013, 12:06 pm)
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 In small towns, it is more difficult to cheat, not only because "word gets around" ( "I saw Jim's car outside the Smith house the other day" ), but also because there are fewer potential candidates.  

I have no knowledge of the alleged "Smith House".

I have never been to the "Smith House".

I saw YOUR car leaving the Jones' residence the other morning as I was on my way to Church to feed widows, orphans and puppies!

I reported my car stolen that day.  (Which day was that, btw?)
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Oct. 25 2013, 9:20 am)
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In an hour or so, I am leaving town for a few days, so it might be Monday before I read this again.  Do not take my lack of participation as a lack of interest in your thoughts.

Leaving for a few days eh?

Business Trip?  Suuuuuuuurrrrreee it is.  :p
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, I've known both men and women who cheated on their significant others. Do I approve? No.

One of my sisters is the biggest cheater I know. She's now on her 4th marriage. Three of the marriages were to men she cheated with, and they married her (lots of divorces involved).


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have seen marriages and relationships fall apart, others quietly patched up. People talk or it is also obvious. Body language is loud if you can read it. And those who think they are discreet are not - lust/love lights up the face waaayyy too much.

Is it worth it? No. Just break up or divorce! Then go do what you want.....


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My Ex-wife cheated on me.

Two of my friends cheated on their wives.

My uncle cheated on his wife. For a while I was going to change my middle name because I was named after him and was offended by his behavior.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes, I think it's fairly common, especially among men who travel for work.  Certain trade shows I've attended, CES in Vegas being one, were just a free for all hookup of sales reps and clients/colleagues/etc.  

A very good friend just found out her mild mannered husband (nicest guy ever!) had been paying for pleasure while overseas on business trips.

I had a fling with a coworker once - he had a live-in girlfriend at the time - they are now married with two kids.  She probably has no idea.  I don't understand those situations where you're already cheating and not even married yet...why get married? (Actually seen this with at least 4 guys I know, cheating but still marrying the person later...very strange to me - part of me wants to warn the girlfriend, but I never have as I like to avoid drama as much as possible)


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 1:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sure, I've known people who do. A pretty close friend has cheated with several women. It cost him what seemed like a good marriage and has had huge repercussions in his 12 YO son. Things have gotten toxic in his life and when I witnessed abusive behavior (him toward his son and his son toward him and his new wife) I talked with him in what I thought was a positive and supportive way - laying out what I was seeing - it was the end of our relationship. Really a complex, sad, and as I said, a toxic situation. I don't expect to discover a friend in an abusive relationship (color me naive).

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 2:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've never been married so cannot speak from that perspective.   Not because I haven't wanted to or had the opportunity to but because death has hung over confidence in my existence since I was 20.  Thus not a considerate responsible option..  Some interesting statistics:

http://www.divorcestatistics.info/latest-....sa.html

http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html

Infidelity rates for married couples from surveys vary considerably so needs to be read skeptically.   Today there are new types of infidelty due to the Internet.  Rates also vary considerably on ethnic, cultural, and religious lines.  Obviously rates are lower for those religions where divorce much less adultery are taboo and generally higher for atheists.   Generally rates are much higher where opportunity is higher which is often the case in modern large urban areas versus smaller towns and rural communities.  

The San Francisco Bay Area I've spent my adult life within has always been at the liberal extreme.   Have also worked within a number of large companies where the opportunity has sometimes been considerable often because of the party culture.   This was much more so during the 70s and 80s when there was a vastly larger nightclub and music scene in the region than during the last couple decades.  

Am out of touch with current generation so am unaware of what is going on other than noticing an epidemic of outrageous titles on news articles I resist reading.   Over the years have met modest numbers of married men co-workers that were rather open about their regular infidelity with some of their other male co-workers, often braggingly.  

Personally as someone brought up Christian, adultery has always been a strong taboo even after my religious beliefs waned as a young adult.   Feel similarly about cheating outside marriage when commited to relationships.    Just like the matter of not overeating for pleasure, many people simply have little self control to resist things that feel good even when they know such can have consequences.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 2:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dave Senesac @ Oct. 25 2013, 1:12 pm)
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The San Francisco Bay Area I've spent my adult life within has always been at the liberal extreme.   Have also worked within a number of large companies where the opportunity has sometimes been considerable often because of the party culture.   This was much more so during the 70s and 80s when there was a vastly larger nightclub and music scene in the region than during the last couple decades.

This is an interesting aside--you apparently assume that politically conservative people cheat less than politically liberal people, and that religiously observant people cheat less than non religiously observant people.

I'm not sure I would assume either of those propositions. (I'm not sure I would assume the converse, either.)

I do agree that there are major cultural differences--in some cultures, it is almost assumed that married men of means have mistresses.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 2:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Rates also vary considerably on ethnic, cultural, and religious lines.  Obviously rates are lower for those religions where divorce much less adultery are taboo and generally higher for atheists."

You had to know that would prompt a response... ?  I don't know about "ethnic" or "cultural" (not even sure what the latter means).  But I completely disagree with the religion comment.  Without getting specific, I can say with absolute certainty that the vast majority of people I know who have cheated have been (according to their own self-definition) members of religions that strongly condemn such conduct (are there any that don't?).  On the other hand, I know people who are generally a-religious (myself included) whose personal morality stands in the way of cheating.  (I don't think the word "atheist" is used properly much of the time; I have been called an atheist but I don't think of myself as one, but as agnostic.  Just FWIW.)  

I think the strong proscriptions and taboos of religion can often have a contrary effect, particularly when imposed at a young age.  When I was a kid, we all knew the best school to look to to get laid was a local church school.  :)

Your comments about the Internet, and the younger generations, are right on, I think.  It's weird, although I grew up in the age of "Free Love" (which I enjoyed... when I was single), to my thinking, the way sex is treated among young people these days makes our generation look like a bunch of fuddie-duddies.  It bothers me, actually (especially as a parent).  

As I have gotten older, I have found myself (somewhat to my own surprise) increasingly believing in the value, if not the sanctity, of family and marital relations.  I don't always agree with (or even like) my wife, but I respect her, and I respect the commitment we have made to each other.  And to our children.  I wonder if coming generations will feel that way, or if we are moving toward a decline in the strength of life-long partnerships.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 3:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jmarklane @ Oct. 25 2013, 11:39 am)
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"Rates also vary considerably on ethnic, cultural, and religious lines.  Obviously rates are lower for those religions where divorce much less adultery are taboo and generally higher for atheists."

You had to know that would prompt a response... ?  I don't know about "ethnic" or "cultural" (not even sure what the latter means).  But I completely disagree with the religion comment.

We aren't connecting on my use of "taboo".   There are Christian religions particularly Catholics where taboo is taboo culturally while several modern Prostetant denominations where although taboo in doctrine is not so culturally.   But then even with Catholics, there is a range from hard core regular church goers that know their doctrines to those Easter/Christmas only mass goers that never really paid attention.  

For any larger cultural groups, their ethical and moral makeup will tend to more or less reflect a bell curve with a full spectrum of individual behaviors.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 5:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dave Senesac @ Oct. 25 2013, 3:27 pm)
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(jmarklane @ Oct. 25 2013, 11:39 am)
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"Rates also vary considerably on ethnic, cultural, and religious lines.  Obviously rates are lower for those religions where divorce much less adultery are taboo and generally higher for atheists."

You had to know that would prompt a response... ?  I don't know about "ethnic" or "cultural" (not even sure what the latter means).  But I completely disagree with the religion comment.

We aren't connecting on my use of "taboo".   There are Christian religions particularly Catholics where taboo is taboo culturally while several modern Prostetant denominations where although taboo in doctrine is not so culturally.   But then even with Catholics, there is a range from hard core regular church goers that know their doctrines to those Easter/Christmas only mass goers that never really paid attention.  

For any larger cultural groups, their ethical and moral makeup will tend to more or less reflect a bell curve with a full spectrum of individual behaviors.

Don't take this personally, but I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with the Catholic religion?  Or maybe it's just different in different parts of the country.  I married an Irish Catholic girl and I can tell ya, there ain't many "cultural taboos" in that crowd.  (Now watch, I'll get lambasted by some nice Catholic girl for that... :) )
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 5:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It would be almost impossible to make a statistical assessment based on the criterion of "do you know somebody who ...", especially among us older folks.  I've known thousands of people over the course of my life.  Just about any kind of misbehavior you can imagine has been committed by at least a few of them.  (I don't know of any mass murderers, but that's about the only thing I can definitely rule out).
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(jmarklane @ Oct. 25 2013, 2:15 pm)
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... I married an Irish Catholic girl and I can tell ya, there ain't many "cultural taboos" in that crowd. ...

As big_load also noted.  

Didn't seem to digest that I noted there is a broad spectrum in any large cultural group with extremes at both ends.    Current divorce stats by religion show frequent US Catholic church goers with lowest divorce rates among Christians denominations which is likely to correlate to infidelity to some extent also.   Atheists rates are 2.5 times their rate because in part they don't have the taboo/sin issues and in this era it is otherwise not a significant negative cultural deal.


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(Dave Senesac @ Oct. 25 2013, 4:56 pm)
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Didn't seem to digest that I noted there is a broad spectrum in any large cultural group with extremes at both ends.    Current divorce stats by religion show frequent US Catholic church goers with lowest divorce rates among Christians denominations which is likely to correlate to infidelity to some extent also.   Atheists rates are 2.5 times their rate because in part they don't have the taboo/sin issues and in this era it is otherwise not a significant negative cultural deal.

I have no doubt that Catholics divorce at lower rates than the general public. But I don't understand how you get from there to extrapolating that therefore they would have lower rates of infidelity. If anything, I might assume the opposite--that people who are unhappy in their marriage but feel like divorce is simply not an option are, if anything, more likely to cheat.

I've never experienced anything that would lead me to believe that infidelity would be any more or less taboo in Catholicism than any other Christian denomination. If anything, I'd say that some of the Latin cultures where the tolerance for "dalliances" is higher tend to be overwhelmingly Catholic.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dave Senesac @ Oct. 25 2013, 3:56 pm)
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Didn't seem to digest that I noted there is a broad spectrum in any large cultural group with extremes at both ends.    Current divorce stats by religion show frequent US Catholic church goers with lowest divorce rates among Christians denominations which is likely to correlate to infidelity to some extent also.   Atheists rates are 2.5 times their rate because in part they don't have the taboo/sin issues and in this era it is otherwise not a significant negative cultural deal.

Your logic escapes my comprehension.  But, that is not unusual when attempting to read what you write.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 7:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do you know of any couple that actually promised not to have sex outside of their relationship?  Isn't that just a presumption people have?

I don't remember any such thing in my wedding vows and I don't remember any such thing ever being in the vows of any of the numerous weddings I've attended.

Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding:  "Yes, I expected you not to have sex with anyone but me, but I never promised to only have sex with you...."
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 25 2013, 7:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

nogods,

I have actually heard the phrase "forsaking all others" used in the vows.


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