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Topic: Do I need to disarm?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
JimInMD Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 10:53 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm putting this in TR, not TPA and I hope to keep it that way.  It's a follow on to the various shoe removal threads running right now.

I'm a cop and required by law to carry my issued service weapon at all times with a few very narrow exceptions.  Obviously it is carried concealed when off duty.  My question is to you, the home owner with many different opinions about guns and their carry...

1) Would you knowingly permit a lawfully armed guest into your home?
2) Would you require them to secure the weapon once inside?
3) Would you require them to keep it concealed?
4) Would you not permit the weapon into your home at all even if it meant that the guest could not come in? (My Department expressly forbids us to lock our weapons in our cars.  If I don't know in advance that you expect me to disarm, leaving may be my only option.)
5) What other expectations would you have of a lawfully armed visitor?

Conversely, to those who lawfully carry concealed firearms:

1) Do you feel any requirement to ask permission in advance if your host will not know?
2) Do you make any provision for securing the weapon away from your home?

For me, it depends on the situation.  If I'm a friend of the host, I will ask them directly in advance and comply with their wishes.  If the host isn't someone I already know, I will carry concealed and keep that knowledge to myself.  Should the host somehow discover that I'm armed and ask me to leave, I will do so immediately and without further comment.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have a portable gun save in my car.  Like any thing it isn't theft proof.  Hell, they could just take the whole car.  But it is a secure place to store my weapon when I'm going places it is not allowed or I prefer not to carry even if allowed.

If I know my host has some aversion to firearms then I won't carry while in their home.  For example, my first daughter and her husband are about as anti-gun as it gets, so I never carry while visiting her, even though she has no issue with being in my home (and leaving her children at my house) knowing I have long guns and hand guns. Otherwise the issue has never come up with anyone else.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My thoughts:

1) Would you knowingly permit a lawfully armed guest into your home?

Yep--although my wife would be more uncomfortable.  

2) Would you require them to secure the weapon once inside?
Just keep it out of sight...and out of mind

3) Would you require them to keep it concealed?
Absolutely.  Waving or wearing your gun on your hip is not a good way to get people to have fun.


4) Would you not permit the weapon into your home at all even if it meant that the guest could not come in? (My Department expressly forbids us to lock our weapons in our cars.  If I don't know in advance that you expect me to disarm, leaving may be my only option.)
No.

5) What other expectations would you have of a lawfully armed visitor?
He would be polite, pleasant, and never use the firearm under any circumstances.  We've managed to live quite safely for more than sixty years without firearms...so it can be done.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If I wouldn't let you in my house while carrying, I wouldn't let you in my house, anyway.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I kind of like owen's answer. I can't really imagine asking a leo to disarm. My dad is a gunsmith; half the people who came to our house when I was a kid were bringing a gun. I can't remember anyone ever being unsafe or careless or obnoxious about it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I just assume that all LEO are carrying all the time.  And I don't have a problem inviting an LEO in to my home either on or off duty.

Others I would judge on an individual basis.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Having armed people around can be handy at times.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't have problem with law enforcement packing in my home. I do find it odd that Non LEO people still feel the need to carry everywhere though. If I didn't know someone entering my home I would expect they tell me they are carrying.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 11:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I live in a town where many people carry. Although I am currently not a gun owner, I have no problem with them carrying in my home at all. If anything, I feel more comfortable with them having a weapon. They are "the good guys".

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd hold my hands above my head in plain view and look as innocent as possible. :D

Seriously, do what ever you need to do. Keep your shoes on too. It wouldn't bother me the slightest bit. That would generally hold true for law enforcement. With other folks, if I didn't trust them, they probably wouldn't be inside my house.

A few years back, I drove down to help my dad with a project on his new house. He invited the county sheriff also, since they were good friends. So the sheriff and I provided the heavy lifting while my dad took measurements. The sheriff was carrying but not openly.

My dad is in the habit of giving his guests playful trouble. And he expects people to give it back to him. So the sheriff and I obliged by ganging up on my dad. We found every excuse we could to give him trouble over how he took measurements or made cuts in materials and so on. It's what friends do when they want work to be enjoyable.

The result is that we all had a good time, my dad got some inexpensive labor, and the sheriff found out what it was like being one of the guys again. But we all knew, without saying, that if something came up, he'd be gone in a moment's notice — and armed to do the job he did so well.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do hosts tell you whether or not they have working carbon monoxide detectors in their home when they send out the invitations?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My NYPD relatives all safely and securely store their weapons when they visit any of our family's homes. Of course they all have their own storage and in others homes there's provision. There's pretty much never not been small children around from visiting my aunts when I was the kid on down so security of storage has always been a given. Now do they just park their primary while leaving their backup in place? Never really thought about it.

Such a routine thing I've never actually asked why they take it off, probably assumed for comfort, some sort of waist carry being the norm.

Now when personal friends who are on the force visit me it's up to them whether they store or just not bother and leave whatever in place. I expect in part it depends on the planned activity: swimming sort of settles the question eh? While simply dinner leaves it open. When friends bring friends who are also on the job I just assume they are wearing something and leave it up to them what they want to do based on the same criteria, whatever fits their comfort, my friends know where the locker is so the option is obvious. Now a civilian whom I didn't know comes into my home armed? Then they need to store it, I'll just lead them to the locker and point out that's where to put their sidearm, were they to have a problem with my preference they can leave (never had that occur). I do appreciate someone asking where they can safely store their firearm, but if I just notice  sometime afterward it's not an issue, I'll just offer them the locker at that point.

Granted I have no idea how a non-cop family would look at it, I grew up with cops and had relatives marry more of them, and then produce their own…. even the retired ones always have a firearm still. So ever since I was little: take off your coat, take off your gun. Sort of normal.

OTOH were my furniture to get dinged up because someones sidearm kept clanging into the wood I wouldn't like it. Hasn't been an issue so far.

Shoe soles have at least the possibility of impacting a homeowners flooring and floor covering, something on a guest's person notsomuch.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think it depends on the situation.

Off duty = hell no
On duty = OK

A number of years ago there was a  bear up in a tree in our neighborhood. DOW and the police cordoned off the area and my home was inside the zone. (Never understood why bears draw such attention---but I digress). Anyway the officer asks to use the bathroom since he been standing around for quite a few hours. I certainly agreed. But he brings his shotgun into the house. Almost immediately I decided I did not like the idea. If it ever happens again, I'd require that the shotgun be left outside.

The only other area where I think it is inappropriate For an officer to carry a gun, especially unconcealed, is in church during mass. I find that totally uncouth. He is certainly not on duty. WWJD?

I think a lot of my attitude stems from an education my uncle provided almost 50 years ago. At his farm house both the gun cabinet and the liquor cabinet  had locks on them. The rule was only one closet could be open at a time. All the guns were locked up before the liquor cabinet was opened. This meant we always waited for the last person in the field to check in.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

bill g- There are jurisdictions where that off/on duty distinction doesn't exist. So were someone to be off the clock as it's sometimes referred to but still required, as the OP, to be carrying her or his duty weapon what would be your position?

For myself anyway it's more about the person and less about the getting paid part (the only difference for some agencies, it was the case in NYC back when I was growing up though they phrased it as officers never being "off-duty" even when not on the clock being paid).
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 12:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As a guest in my home, I would hope everyone who carries would secure it before continuing the good times.  Since I own no guns, I have no way of securing guns in my home, so that would need to be provided by the carrier.  A simple trigger lock would suffice.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 1:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

All that I would ask is the person tell me they are carrying and then I would do my part and make sure they are not provided any alcoholic beverage. If it would make people happy I would lock it up with my own firearms.

Now I was unhappy about asking Jim to disarm when he and I went shooting at my range. But those are rules of the range and evidently are more common than I thought.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Meh.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My dad was a cop for a few years, and later a PI (and later corporate security head).  I grew up with guns, going to the range, etc.  I own several guns, handguns and rifles (they are kept secure).  

I agree with those who say, not only would I allow an LEO to enter my home armed, I'd be delighted.  I'd feel that much safer for it.  Anyone I don't trust is not coming in anyway, armed or otherwise.  As for "off duty/on duty", no such thing.  A police officer is "always on duty".  In fact, I think we are all "always on duty" in one way or another, simply as citizens.  But that's a different question.  

Specific answers:


1) Would you knowingly permit a lawfully armed guest into your home?

As noted, if it's an LEO, sure.  A private citizen with a CCP, I think it would depend -- if it's someone I know and trust, ok.  Otherwise, why would I let them in my home at all?  Someone (other than an LEO) openly carrying a firearm is a different story, and I don't think I would allow that, at least not around my children.

2) Would you require them to secure the weapon once inside?

Within the parameters above, no.

3) Would you require them to keep it concealed?

As noted above.

4) Would you not permit the weapon into your home at all even if it meant that the guest could not come in? (My Department expressly forbids us to lock our weapons in our cars.  If I don't know in advance that you expect me to disarm, leaving may be my only option.)

Covered above, I think.  My only hesitation really is an open carry by someone not an LEO.  That's a bit much, at least around here (NYC area) (used to be common in the South when I was growing up, and a different context...happened all the time then/there).  

5) What other expectations would you have of a lawfully armed visitor?

Laugh at my jokes?

Conversely, to those who lawfully carry concealed firearms:

1) Do you feel any requirement to ask permission in advance if your host will not know?


I don't carry, but my dad still does (concealed), and I know he does not ask, nor does he reveal that he is carrying.  I suspect it would alarm a lot of people, but what they don't know won't alarm them (and he'd never draw the weapon in a million years unless real protection required it).  He has carried in my house, and it never bothered me a bit (my wife, who is a liberal nut :) did not know, she would have flipped).  


2) Do you make any provision for securing the weapon away from your home?


I don't believe my dad does, nor would I ever expect anyone to.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Lawfully armed" encompasses a pretty broad range of people, so it would depend on the person. LEO carrying - no worries.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I live in Texas, it is consider polite to ask a guest if they are carrying, if they respond no, you offer to loan them a weapon for the duration of their visit.  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I trust a cop with a concealed weapon more than 'ordinary citizens'...

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 3:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Chuck D, that made me laugh out loud, thank you.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That was good ChuckD!!
If you are a guest you are a guest.  Keep your shoes on or take them off,  wear a hat or don't, carry concealed or don't.  Hospitality should rule.

Ben


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Come right on in.  Prefer you didn't keep it a secret. You show me yours and I'll show you a few of mine and please don't scratch the coffee table.   :cool:

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(SmokingHead @ Nov. 14 2013, 2:12 pm)
QUOTE
Prefer you didn't keep it a secret. You show me yours and I'll show you a few of mine

OOC

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 14 2013, 4:13 pm)
QUOTE

(SmokingHead @ Nov. 14 2013, 2:12 pm)
QUOTE
Prefer you didn't keep it a secret. You show me yours and I'll show you a few of mine

OOC

There's lots of that in this thread.  For example, balzaccom:  

QUOTE
Would you require them to keep it concealed?
Absolutely.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Chuck D @ Nov. 14 2013, 12:41 pm)
QUOTE
I live in Texas, it is consider polite to ask a guest if they are carrying, if they respond no, you offer to loan them a weapon for the duration of their visit.  :D

:laugh:
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd rather you didn't.  Thank you.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 4:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If I invite someone into my home, there are no strings attached.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2013, 5:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

My best friend is a Federal Agent, I know she's always carrying and I don't mind one bit. I really could care less as I would consider any gun owners I know to be responsible, but here in the great state of Illinois, there's not much legal carrying allowed anyways.

In my 20's, I once hosted a very awkward party that mixed two very different groups of friends - lot of drugs being done in the adjacent bedroom while agents and/or cops were showing off their guns in the living room - we were all young and dumb, and the party ended amicably, thank goodness!


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