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| Post Number: 1
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RollAway 
Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: Dec. 2011
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Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 4:46 pm |
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I have gone on plenty of summer excursions. Some of them have been long, but, I've always had the car close enough by to make multiple trips to camp, or have had the kayak and loaded everything on there.
I'm new to long winter excursions, and honestly, traveling far with a few days worth of gear.
I have a ~50-mile trip planned out in Yosemite. The route is far from any road, as it practically goes around the edge at high altitude around Yosemite Valley.
The trip is going to take place in November and it will be frigid in the mountains.
There will be probably be four of us traveling.
But I want to break this down just for me--as if I was alone.
How should I layer to keep lightweight but warm?
-winter hat
-base layer (synthetic--merino wool or under armour)
-fleece jacket
-down jacket
-Colombia shell (water proof/wind proof with hood)-not the lightest
-wool socks
-Wolverine hiking boots
-gloves>??
Things to bring--things to leave out--I know the essentials, but any tips will be appreciated.
-Backpack
-Sleeping bag (bulky--straps to outside bottom of pack)
-Map, compass,
-Firestarter, tiny box of matches, zippo,
-Digital camera,
-?cell phone? (useless no reception in wilds),
-Black Diamond Waterproof Headlamp
-Flashlight
-Multitool
-Knife (very light)
-Tent (out of bag--folded up in pack) >>not the lightest<<
-Tarp
-Bandana (head, face, carrying, filtering)
-Water bottle (suggestions?)
-Small Travel-sized journal (need)
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And, most importantly, Food & Water.
How much food and what kinds of food do you normally bring on ~3day winter excursions?
I cant afford to purchase a bunch of those lightweight dried foods in a bag for everybody...
Any advice will be much appreciated.. Thanks!
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| Post Number: 2
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ndwoods
Group: Members
Posts: 447
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 11:49 pm |
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You have a lot of duplicates. A headlamp and a flashlight. A multitool and a knife. A tent and a tarp. And I usually don't bring down jackets in the winter....I stick with synthetics in case they get wet. You don't mention pad. I would stick with a closed cell foam or something that is not a thermarest. If you spring a leak in a thermarest in the summer you sleep on hard ground and are uncomfortable. You spring a leak in the winter and get hypothermia. You have question marks by the gloves. This time of year I would not go without them. Hope this helps....
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http://ndeewoods.blogspot.com/ and Wilder Ranch State Park
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| Post Number: 3
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rayestrella
Group: Members
Posts: 6411
Joined: Nov. 2004
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Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 12:22 pm |
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There is an awful lot to look at here RollAway,
First of all what part of Nov. are you planning this for? They already got a lot of snow there, and how do you plan to get up to the upper rim route? (I know it well and did it last 14 months ago.) Also 50 miles in three days in snow is pretty aggressive for a beginner’s first trip. I would highly suggest starting out somewhere flat and learn the ins and outs of winter camping before you jump into something like this.
As far as clothes I like wool base layers just to cut down on the funk-factor, but synthetics work. You can find good deals at Sierra Trading Post.
Yes bring a hat, I prefer fleece with wind-block or a fleece lined hard shell type.
I bring a medium-to-heavy fleece and a down coat. Fleece for hiking in if it is very cold and down for in camp and to bolster my quilt if needed.
The shell is what you may find yourself hiking in the most if it is snowing or if there is spindrift blowing. I usually hike in a baselayer and my shell, venting as needed. It is a lot warmer there in CA and if the wind is not blowing or it is snowing I would most likely just be in a base layer alone while under way. It all depends on how warm you are when hiking. (I am a furnace.)
Gloves for sure. Heavy and light. Thin light ones may be all you need if hiking hard (my hands sweat a lot) and work better for trying to set up a tent or work with your stove and such. Once you are sitting in camp though heavy ones (or mittens) and better/warmer.
Get some insulated holders for your water bottles as they will freeze otherwise as average lows up there will be in the teens to 20’s. Like these:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews....strella
Your cell phone should work on the rim trail.
Food, what do you mean you can’t afford it for everybody? Are the other 3 people newbies too and not bringing their own? (If so that is worrisome.) You burn a lot more calories in winter than you do for 3-season hiking. It is about three times harder to hike in snow than a trail, plus your loads are bigger. You will eat a lot. In winter I make a two-serving freeze dried meal and add cheese and/or olive oil to boost the calories and eat the entire thing.
Think about what I said, I don’t want to read about you later next month. Be safe.
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I measure happiness with an altimeter
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| Post Number: 4
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rayestrella
Group: Members
Posts: 6411
Joined: Nov. 2004
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Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 12:44 pm |
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Just thought of another thing. You don't mention a stove. Plan at least two of them for four people and bring a lot of fuel. You will be melting snow for water, about 4 gallons (or more) per day.
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I measure happiness with an altimeter
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| Post Number: 5
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| Post Number: 6
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AlmostThere
I must not be there yet, I keep hiking...
Group: Members
Posts: 4890
Joined: Apr. 2008
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Posted on: Oct. 30 2012, 2:30 pm |
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Scale waaaaaaay back on mileage if you're all new and there is significant snow.
Going up Those trails from valley floor to high country will mean ice and snow.
Unless you have an experienced companion, I recommend a single night and low miles. And everything Ray said. You need shell pants, too. Gaiters to keep powder from soaking the socks.
If there is snow. Not seeing anything that hints there won't be.
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All truly great thoughts are conceived by walking.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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| Post Number: 7
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SW Mtn backpacker
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Group: Members
Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Oct. 31 2012, 1:19 am |
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You are dealing with more variables into winter. Snow mobility -- will there be waist high or possible even more snow? Posthole or snowshoes/skis? Cold snaps. Life sux when the expected low is 25 but a front slips down to bring it to 0. Even with a down jacket inside the bag, every time a knee or hip presses against the bag, instant cold spot to wake you up. It's survivable but not much fun.
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Usually Southwest and then some.
In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
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| Post Number: 8
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AlmostThere
I must not be there yet, I keep hiking...
Group: Members
Posts: 4890
Joined: Apr. 2008
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Posted on: Oct. 31 2012, 10:18 am |
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Oh, and some of the trails close in winter. Upper Yosemite Falls does. When it freezes and thaws, water cracks off the rocks and they fall - the trail is where they end up rolling down.
I think you should plan your trip out of Badger Pass and stay the night at Glacier or Dewey Point (Glacier can be cross country ski overnight destination, and Dewey is a straightforward snowshoe). A lot of destinations you cannot normally camp at will be accessible.
But NO FIRES are allowed (this is true no matter where you go in winter in Yosemite), and you will be handed a WAG bag at the Badger hut. And you still need the bear canister. Not all the bears hibernate.
I'm going to do an overnight in Mariposa Grove in January or February - should be gorgeous.
Food in winter needs to have a higher caloric value and needs to give you enough energy to stay warm at night. Fats are good - don't skimp on the carbs and fats. Hot drinks and real food would be my recommendation.
Really, this does not belong in the Ultralight forum. New winter campers should not try to plan ultralight winter camping. The skills you need for winter are different, and your margin for error is slimmer. Even ultralight winter camping is not going to be "light" - my winter load for just an overnight in fair weather pushes 40+ lbs, and I use a 2.5 lb GoLite tipi tent. Layers and food and shovel, a heavier pad (or two 3 season pads), bear can... it starts to add up fast.
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All truly great thoughts are conceived by walking.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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| Post Number: 9
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Idaho Bob
Group: Members
Posts: 744
Joined: Jun. 2003
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Posted on: Nov. 06 2012, 5:49 pm |
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Agree with others, 50 miler first time winter camping is a disaster in the making. A 2 or 3 day trip, 5 miles in and out, would be a lot safer.
Are you taking skis or snowshoes? How deep is the snow that time of year.
Is the terrain such that you can take a gear sled? That seriously adds to safety and comfort, because you can take more stuff.
I would delete:
fleece jacket (down is lighter and warmer, don't get it wet, let it dry in the sun)
flashlight
multitool
Tarp
I would add:
wind pants
multiple gloves sets
multiple pairs of socks
foam pad plus air mattress like neoaire or big agnes
gasoline stove
lots of gasoline
fairly large pot for melting snow
baseball type hat
gear sled
snow shovel
snow saw
fire starting paste for stove
down booties to wear around camp and in sleeping bag
make sure the sleeping bag is adequate
extra batteries for flashlight
cup, bowl, spoon,
a knife that you can cut branches with, like a Mora knife, one you can use a baton to pound through 1" branches
neck gaitor
gaitors for legs
synthetic pants
12" x 12" at least plywood platform for stove
aluminum wind screen for stove
Breakfast: Frozen Jimmy Dean skittles, Via coffee
lunch: jerky, crackers, cheese, sugared kool aid, dates, yogurt covered raisins, granola bars
Dinner: pasta meals, rice meals, biullion, chocolate drink,
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| Post Number: 10
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greenfeet
Group: Members
Posts: 127
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 18 2012, 8:34 am |
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Although many, especially ultra lighters will argue, I agree on duplicating a few things. Especially in the snow. Something dropped on the snow can sometimes be impossible to find.
Light and knife are perfect examples.
I almost always have a small headlamp, and a backup light of some sort. Usually a small keychain thumb light or something.
Knife, same thing. A very small key chain type Swiss army first aid, and a main gerber tool or larger Swiss army. I don't take the gerber tool much any more. I saw less reason to need it with a good Swiss army. I didn't see much use for heavy pliers while hiking in the woods.
I have been meaning to get a light tarpon addition to a tent. I hate being stuck in a tent in bad weather. An nadditional tarp would give me a "covered porch" Ada if you will. But I guess if you used only a tarp anyway, you wouldn't get cabin fever if was raining. I have not pick up one yet as I don't want to spend the cash to buy the one large / light enough that would serve my needs.
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| Post Number: 11
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| Post Number: 12
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greenfeet
Group: Members
Posts: 127
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 19 2012, 1:12 am |
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(rayestrella @ Nov. 18 2012, 10:37 am)
QUOTE
(greenfeet @ Nov. 18 2012, 7:34 am)
QUOTE I didn't see much use for heavy pliers while hiking in the woods. Winter is the only time I do carry a multi-tool w/pliers. They can be a life-saver if you need to work on snowshoes/ski bindings/gear sled, etc.
Excellent point.
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
